Hiya
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Re: Hiya
Welcome Home!
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
- Freakzilla
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Re: Hiya
You've come to the right place.Naib wrote:I'm here looking to chat with other fans of Dune and all things Dune related.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Hiya
To strike at the Harkonnens from the inside? He did try to assasinate Feyd and help Feyd try to kill the Baron.Naib wrote:Favourite moral quandary? That's a thinker. Off the top of my head I'd say Thufir's decision to work for the Harkonnen's.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Hiya
True. But it still would have been a difficult decision to make at the moment.Freakzilla wrote:To strike at the Harkonnens from the inside? He did try to assasinate Feyd and help Feyd try to kill the Baron.Naib wrote:Favourite moral quandary? That's a thinker. Off the top of my head I'd say Thufir's decision to work for the Harkonnen's.
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He wanted to stay alive to revenge his Duke by killing the Baron, Feyd and hopefully the treacherous Bene Gesserit witch ... not a difficult decision at all if you ask me.Naib wrote:True. But it still would have been a difficult decision to make at the moment.Freakzilla wrote:To strike at the Harkonnens from the inside? He did try to assasinate Feyd and help Feyd try to kill the Baron.Naib wrote:Favourite moral quandary? That's a thinker. Off the top of my head I'd say Thufir's decision to work for the Harkonnen's.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
- Naib
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Re: Hiya
But what about all the loathsome things he'd have to do for the Baron in the meantime? His soul would be forever stained just for the chance to kill the Baron, Feyd, and Rabban. If he'd have to hurt innocent people just to make the attempt at revenge it would make Thufir little better than the Baron himself in the end.Serkanner wrote:He wanted to stay alive to revenge his Duke by killing the Baron, Feyd and hopefully the treacherous Bene Gesserit witch ... not a difficult decision at all if you ask me.Naib wrote:True. But it still would have been a difficult decision to make at the moment.Freakzilla wrote:To strike at the Harkonnens from the inside? He did try to assasinate Feyd and help Feyd try to kill the Baron.Naib wrote:Favourite moral quandary? That's a thinker. Off the top of my head I'd say Thufir's decision to work for the Harkonnen's.
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Re: Hiya
I think this would be a good topic for General Discussion: Moral Delemas in Dune
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Hiya
If you assume that the rule by the Atreides was in any way a lot more "peaceful" or a lot less "dictatorial" than the Harkonnen. Both Atreides and Harkonnen are Aristocratic houses that rule entire planets. How do you think the "serfs" of the Atreides thought about their rulers? Is it any better to help a Duke oppress the people (mostly innocent) of a whole planet ( Caladan and later Arrakis ) than it is to help the Baron?Naib wrote:But what about all the loathsome things he'd have to do for the Baron in the meantime? His soul would be forever stained just for the chance to kill the Baron, Feyd, and Rabban. If he'd have to hurt innocent people just to make the attempt at revenge it would make Thufir little better than the Baron himself in the end.Serkanner wrote:He wanted to stay alive to revenge his Duke by killing the Baron, Feyd and hopefully the treacherous Bene Gesserit witch ... not a difficult decision at all if you ask me.Naib wrote:True. But it still would have been a difficult decision to make at the moment.Freakzilla wrote:To strike at the Harkonnens from the inside? He did try to assasinate Feyd and help Feyd try to kill the Baron.Naib wrote:Favourite moral quandary? That's a thinker. Off the top of my head I'd say Thufir's decision to work for the Harkonnen's.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
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Re: Hiya
It never came across to me that the Atreides were oppressive towards their own subjects. On the contrary they seemed to go out of their way to treat their subjects with compassion and dignity. That's not to say that people wouldn't be treated harshly if there was a good reason, but I think they would make damned sure there was a good reason.
The ending of the degrading ritual of water slopping is a fair example I think of how the Atreides treated their subjects compared to the Harkonnens.
The ending of the degrading ritual of water slopping is a fair example I think of how the Atreides treated their subjects compared to the Harkonnens.
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Re: Hiya
I wouldn't say Thufir helped Duke Leto oppress his populations, I think he used his as more of a tool of statecraft. Espionage and whatnot.
However, Thufir did instruct the Baron to oppress the people of Arrakis. But I think that was to bring down the wrath of the emperor for trying to turn Arrakis into another Salusa Secundus.
However, Thufir did instruct the Baron to oppress the people of Arrakis. But I think that was to bring down the wrath of the emperor for trying to turn Arrakis into another Salusa Secundus.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Hiya
Naib wrote:On the contrary they seemed to go out of their way to treat their subjects with compassion and dignity.
Is there any proof in the texts to support this? Every authoritarian system in history has been "oppressive" in nature to its subjects. It is therefore not a stretch to assume this was also the case with the atreides. For instance: the Atreides were masters of propaganda. Apparently there was a strong need for the Atreides to make use of propagnada to support their claims.[/quote]
Sedondly: The Duke send buyers to the Bene Gesserit to buy a Concubine .... hardly a show of compassion and dignity in my opinion.
It was Jessica who ordered this. Neither the quartermakers who arrived first on Arrakis or the Duke or Paul for that matter stopped the ritual. Besides ... stopping this ritual was the fantastic piece of propaganda for the Atreides'new rule. But still there was apparently a great shoratges of water. Even the flowerroom was kept intact "to preserve it for the people" instead of giving the vast amounts of water to the poorest.Naib wrote:The ending of the degrading ritual of water slopping is a fair example I think of how the Atreides treated their subjects compared to the Harkonnens.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
- Freakzilla
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Re: Hiya
It was Duke Leto...
How typical of a Harkonnen fief, the Duke thought. Every degradation of the
spirit that can be conceived. He took a deep breath, feeling rage tighten his
stomach.
"The custom stops here!" he muttered.
He saw a serving woman--one of the old and gnarled ones the housekeeper had
recommended--hovering at the doorway from the kitchen across from him. The Duke
signaled with upraised hand. She moved out of the shadows, scurried around the
table toward him, and he noted the leathery face, the blue-within-blue eyes.
"My Lord wishes?" She kept her head bowed, eyes shielded.
He gestured. "Have these basins and towels removed."
How typical of a Harkonnen fief, the Duke thought. Every degradation of the
spirit that can be conceived. He took a deep breath, feeling rage tighten his
stomach.
"The custom stops here!" he muttered.
He saw a serving woman--one of the old and gnarled ones the housekeeper had
recommended--hovering at the doorway from the kitchen across from him. The Duke
signaled with upraised hand. She moved out of the shadows, scurried around the
table toward him, and he noted the leathery face, the blue-within-blue eyes.
"My Lord wishes?" She kept her head bowed, eyes shielded.
He gestured. "Have these basins and towels removed."
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
- Freakzilla
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Re: Hiya
But Serkanner has a point, there was nobility and the faufreluches. If you weren't nobility you were a peon.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: Hiya
Ouch! ... I have been poisoned by the TV series. In the TV series it is Jessica that stops the custom.Freakzilla wrote:It was Duke Leto...
How typical of a Harkonnen fief, the Duke thought. Every degradation of the
spirit that can be conceived. He took a deep breath, feeling rage tighten his
stomach.
"The custom stops here!" he muttered.
He saw a serving woman--one of the old and gnarled ones the housekeeper had
recommended--hovering at the doorway from the kitchen across from him. The Duke
signaled with upraised hand. She moved out of the shadows, scurried around the
table toward him, and he noted the leathery face, the blue-within-blue eyes.
"My Lord wishes?" She kept her head bowed, eyes shielded.
He gestured. "Have these basins and towels removed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueYYVRTWmjY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
25:35 minutes
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
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- Administrator
- Posts: 2984
- Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
- Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands
Re: Hiya
The first few times I read Dune ( age 15-20 ) I saw the Atreides as the good ones, the rightful ones. Then I grew up and started to read more between the lines. Education, experience and lots of re-reading an dof cours ethe debates on numerous Dune sites have shaped my perception of the books. My perception is not the truth of course and that is why this site in particular is so great. It gives us the opportunity to study and learn all there is about the books ... and opinion and perceptions do differ.Naib wrote:Without question. The serf life wouldn't be too grand.
In other words: great to have you here sharing your insights and perception.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”
Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
- Naib
- Posts: 394
- Joined: 30 Jan 2014 15:54
Re: Hiya
Cheers Serkanner. I like your arguments and they'll probably come back to me the next time I reread Dune.Serkanner wrote:The first few times I read Dune ( age 15-20 ) I saw the Atreides as the good ones, the rightful ones. Then I grew up and started to read more between the lines. Education, experience and lots of re-reading an dof cours ethe debates on numerous Dune sites have shaped my perception of the books. My perception is not the truth of course and that is why this site in particular is so great. It gives us the opportunity to study and learn all there is about the books ... and opinion and perceptions do differ.Naib wrote:Without question. The serf life wouldn't be too grand.
In other words: great to have you here sharing your insights and perception.