The Bene Gesserit can turn invisible?...Oh sorry MAKE YOU not see them, ummm how do they do this? Through the force?
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Thought you couldnt see a no ship
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Unless we look at the UK edition of Heretics. There is that one passage that was different than the US version and seemed to hint that no-tech might have been invented much earlier, possibly by (or more likely for) the Harkonnen.Freakzilla wrote:No-field technology was invented early in Leto II's reign and the Navigation Machine near the end, both by Ix.
Now, FH does not indicate why Teg would think this, and I still believe that the Hack honestly didn't know about this passage that could be used to weakly justify what they did with no-tech in those pre-Dune books."I agree it's primitive but it's also fascinating." Teg lifted his gaze to the
scrollwork on the nearby kitchen ceiling. The moment of decision had
arrived. Lucilla could not be depended upon to remain distracted much
longer. Teg shared her fascination, though. It was easy to lose yourself
in these marvels. The whole no-globe complex, some two hundred
meters in diameter, was a fossil preserved intact from the time of the
Tyrant. It was remarkably primitive in all of its aspects, including the
machinery and the nullentropy bins at the core. Teg guessed it to be much
earlier than that of the Tyrant and, if the stories about Dar-es-Balat were
to be trusted, this early technology represented a remarkable
achievement.
I'd forgotten about that.A Thing of Eternity wrote:Unless we look at the UK edition of Heretics. There is that one passage that was different than the US version and seemed to hint that no-tech might have been invented much earlier, possibly by (or more likely for) the Harkonnen.Freakzilla wrote:No-field technology was invented early in Leto II's reign and the Navigation Machine near the end, both by Ix.
For those who haven't seen this RED is US edition only, BLUE is UK edition only, and black is from both texts.
"I agree it's primitive but it's also fascinating." Teg lifted his gaze to the
scrollwork on the nearby kitchen ceiling. The moment of decision had
arrived. Lucilla could not be depended upon to remain distracted much
longer. Teg shared her fascination, though. It was easy to lose yourself
in these marvels. The whole no-globe complex, some two hundred
meters in diameter, was a fossil preserved intact from the time of the
Tyrant. It was remarkably primitive in all of its aspects, including the
machinery and the nullentropy bins at the core. Teg guessed it to be much
earlier than that of the Tyrant and, if the stories about Dar-es-Balat were
to be trusted, this early technology represented a remarkable
achievement.
Hmm, I never really put much thought into whether or not the Guild were also utilizing no-tech. I'll have to do some re-reading.Freakzilla wrote:INM: Ixian Navigation Machine.A Thing of Eternity wrote:What's the IMN?
No, they did their framing of Leto with it inside a Guild Highliner.A Thing of Eternity wrote:Hmm, I never really put much thought into whether or not the Guild were also utilizing no-tech. I'll have to do some re-reading.Freakzilla wrote:INM: Ixian Navigation Machine.A Thing of Eternity wrote:What's the IMN?
EDIT: Hey, put into the context of this prequel, what kind of no-ship did the Harkonnens have? It wasn't a foldspace ship was it?
The no chamber is fine - it's in GEOD and you can imagine a bulky prototype no-generator tucked deep in a mountain. That scans.. I even like it a bit.sparafucile wrote:Even if it could be justified, that they'd try to incorporate it into their prequels bothers me more than the other inconsistencies I hear about. Not entirely sure why.![]()
I guess I just have a fond spot for no-technology. That stuff's neato!
It's interesting to look at the text of Heretics immediately after the passage quoted above:FH in GEoD wrote: Third and we believe that this is equal in portent to the actual discovery, there is the storehouse itself. The repository for these journals is an undoubted Ixian artifact of such primitive and yet marvelous construction that it is sure to throw new light on the historical epoch known as "The Scattering." As was to be expected, the storehouse was invisible. It was buried far deeper than myth and the Oral History had led us to expect and it emitted radiation and absorbed radiation to simulate the natural character of its surroundings, a mechanical mimesis which is not surprising of itself. What has surprised our engineers, however, is the way this was done with the most rudimentary and truly primitive mechanical skills.
I can see that some of you are as excited by this as we were.
We believe we are looking at the first Ixian Globe, the noroom from which all such devices evolved. If it is not actually the first, we believe it must be one of the first and embodying the same principles as the first.
Lucilla's comment alone could be consistent with a Dune prequel use of no-tech, but Teg's thoughts immediately afterwards preclude it.When she spoke about it, Lucilla's voice took on a husky, whispering quality. "Surely, the Tyrant must have known about this place."
Teg's Mentat awareness had been immersed immediately in this suggestion. Why did the Tyrant permit Family Harkonnen to squander so much of their last remaining wealth on such an enterprise?
Perhaps for that very reason—to drain them.
There's a line in the part with Teg & Lucilla in the no-globe about the Harkonnens "keeping their heads down" during Muad'Dib and Leto's reigns.FH in Heretics wrote: Gammu, the planet was called now. Once, it had been known as Giedi Prime but someone named Gurney Halleck had changed that.
Yes, but KJA doesn't get Prescience...for him, it's being invisible,period...For him, prescience is just a complex part of the story that FH didn't explain well and if he could do that, hell, he could outdo FH and feel pretty good about himself...one more minute of his life...Raveem wrote:What piffle. No chambers could only be developed in response to something. That something was the phenomenon of the prescience of Paul and later Leto. What would be the point of a no chamber in absence of a potent prescient threat? Certainly, before Paul, no prescience of the Guild navigator type was of any (apparent) *strategic* value.
It would be like we made a machine to harvest monopoles on Earth right now when, in fact, monopoles are only going to be discovered 5,000 years from now on a star far away. That's how pointless a no chamber would be before Paul/Leto. Which just adds a further seal of stupidity on the cowpats that are the BH/KJA books.
Raveem.
Gotta love that, it does seem that KJA only thinks of this. The Guild didn't use their Prescience for anything other than navigation until Paul came along. I think the being invisible was a side effect of the prescience invisibility but KJA does seem to think its a cloaking device and nothing more.Rakis wrote:
Hey, KJA ! It's not just a fucking cloaking device !!!
The no-ship Duncan was inprisoned in was on standby power - invisible to prescience but visible to the naked eye. However, in combat they are both invisible to mechanical and physical sensors.Hunchback Jack wrote:This was something I wasn't sure about when reading the prequels. My reading from the original series (many years ago) was that no-fields were primarily a defense against prescience.
Some of the passages in Heretics and Chapter House imply that they are "invisible" in some way (i.e. Teg alone is able to "see" them), but I always thought that meant undetectable by instruments. (Is there radar in the Dune universe?) I never thought for a second they were actually invisible to normal sight.
On the contrary, my recollection is that the no-ship in which Duncan was hiding was very much visible.
HBJ