Jessica to the Winds of Dune inconsistencies!

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 24 Mar 2009 12:53

Here's yet another example of the kind of shit abuse of language that pisses me off:

how a hero adored by a planet became a tyrant hated by a universe

As we've discussed elsewhere here, IMHO "by a galaxy" would have been more than sufficient here.

Either way: "universe" is too over the top.

Hunchback Jack · Post by **Hunchback Jack** » 24 Mar 2009 16:15

The weird thing about this synopsis is that it begins as if Winds occurs between Dune and DM (like PoD did), but later explains that it takes place after Paul walks into the desert.

I wonder if they wrote a version of this when JoD was supposed to follow PoD chronologically, and then just tweaked it a bit when they changed their minds?

(This summary really poorly written, incidentally).

HBJ

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 24 Mar 2009 18:35

I wonder if Leto and Ghanima are going to 'pretend' to be babies in this one so KJA won't have to bother writing them as if they are already fully mature like he did with Alia in Paul of Dune.

I'm also assuming that Jessica will ask Irulan to leave this part of the story out and not mention that she's been to Dune while her grandchildren are alive but didn't see them.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 24 Mar 2009 22:02

Ampoliros wrote:I wonder if Leto and Ghanima are going to 'pretend' to be babies in this one so KJA won't have to bother writing them as if they are already fully mature like he did with Alia in Paul of Dune.

Maybe they'll take on baby personas and become possessed for most of the book, until cured by a good ol' WoL transfusion.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 24 Mar 2009 22:04

Ampoliros wrote:I'm also assuming that Jessica will ask Irulan to leave this part of the story out and not mention that she's been to Dune while her grandchildren are alive but didn't see them.

Ditto on the naughty bits about her and Gurney-man making the two-backed beast day and night back on Caladan.

How long was it after Chani died that Paul walked into the desert? The Twins would still be infants while Jessica is back for that opening "Where, oh where has my Pauly Boy gone?! Where oh where can he be?!" trip back to Arrakis.

Oh shit ... what do you want to bet Kevin has the twins communicating with Jessica telepathically like Leto does with Paul?

Robspierre · Post by **Robspierre** » 24 Mar 2009 23:42

I'm just waiting for the incest to show up.

Rob

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 25 Mar 2009 00:04

Robspierre wrote:I'm just waiting for the incest to show up.

Biggest CoD let-down.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Mar 2009 03:15

They were only nine, for fuck's sake.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 25 Mar 2009 06:50

SandChigger wrote:They were only nine, for fuck's sake.

Heretics, then Chapterhouse didn't let us down.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Mar 2009 09:25

I know! I'm still hard.

Jessica felt a stirring in the corners of her mind, a feathery contact like when Gurney brushed her nipples with roq-roq down from the pillows on her bed. She seemed to see words forming, like on the two-dimensional silver screen of ancient entertainments, but could hear nothing.

Grandmother...

I think it's time to get to work on my sample chapters for Winds.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 25 Mar 2009 09:26

Then again, maybe not

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 25 Mar 2009 09:27

SandChigger wrote:I know! I'm still hard.

Jessica felt a stirring in the corners of her mind, a feathery contact like when Gurney brushed her nipples with roq-roq down from the pillows on her bed. She seemed to see words forming, like on the two-dimensional silver screen of ancient entertainments, but could hear nothing.

Grandmother...

I think it's time to get to work on my sample chapters for Winds.

Maybe this time we'll be able to tell the difference between The Hacks' works and yours.

*fingers crossed*

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 25 Mar 2009 09:29

SandChigger wrote:I think it's time to get to work on my sample chapters for Winds.

Maybe I should get to work on some Leto II/Ghanima fanfiction. We're all thinking it, right. Right?

And then the Leto II/Alia fanfiction...

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 25 Mar 2009 09:35

Redstar wrote:
SandChigger wrote:I think it's time to get to work on my sample chapters for Winds.
Maybe I should get to work on some Leto II/Ghanima fanfiction. We're all thinking it, right. Right?

And then the Leto II/Alia fanfiction...

That's just wrong on so many levels, but mainly because it'll give ideas to The Hacks.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Mar 2009 09:58

I think Spleefmistress has already touched on the Leto/Ghanima angle here.

But Leto and Alia and even Alia and Ghanima are wide open.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 25 Mar 2009 10:01

Didn't Jessica brooks get 2nd or third on our ladies of Dune poll? Yeah Leto II totally would have tapped that.

"Look sis, Incest is only bad if we have kids..."

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 25 Mar 2009 10:09

SandChigger wrote:I think Spleefmistress has already touched on the Leto/Ghanima angle here.

*Unzips pants*

Post by **Freakzilla** » 25 Mar 2009 10:30

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Ampoliros wrote:Didn't Jessica brooks get 2nd or third on our ladies of Dune poll? Yeah Leto II totally would have tapped that.

"Look sis, Incest is only bad if we have kids..."

i'd be all over brooks like a fat kid on a smartie

Like a rat on a Cheeto.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 25 Mar 2009 10:51

Like Hyppo on anything with a pulse.

(Oh Red, put yer "Byron" away.

)

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 28 Mar 2009 22:01

They've updated the Product Description on Amazon (US):

With their usual skill, Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson have taken ideas left behind by Frank Herbert and filled them with living characters and a true sense of wonder. Where Paul of Dune picked up the saga directly after the events of Dune, The Winds of Dune begins after the events of Dune Messiah.

Paul has walked off into the sand, blind, and is presumed dead. Jessica and Gurney are on Caladan; Alia is trying to hold the Imperial government together with Duncan; Mohiam dead at the hands of Stilgar; Irulan imprisoned. Paul’s former friend, Bronso of Ix, now seems to be leading opposition to the House of Atreides. Herbert and Anderson’s newest book in this landmark series will concentrate on these characters as well the growing battle between Jessica, and her daughter, Alia.

"...living characters and a true sense of wonder": Yeah, you truly wonder, who the fuck are these characters?!

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 28 Mar 2009 22:19

I find myself not recalling some of the events/people mentioned in there. I'm assuming they're mostly House and PoD fabrications?

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 28 Mar 2009 22:28

SandChigger wrote:With their usual skill ...

All I needed to know; I stopped reading there. Thanks, Amazon!

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 29 Mar 2009 02:27

Redstar wrote:I find myself not recalling some of the events/people mentioned in there. I'm assuming they're mostly House and PoD fabrications?

Um ... no, every character mentioned in that bit I posted is from the originals. (I started a discussion thread over on Amazon about this, but to recap....)

1. Paul walked into the desert per Fremen custom regarding the blind at the end of DM and they all assume him dead (until the Preacher shows up in CoD). Checks out OK.

2. Jessica and Gurney should be on Caladan, but Kevin has said that Jessica returns to Arrakis at the beginning of Winds; there's nothing in the originals that hints that she came back that I can remember. (Possible inconsistencies here.)

3. Alia & Duncan trying to hold gov't together: makes sense, she's the Regent. (OK as is.)

4. Stilgar admits to killing Mohiam against Paul's orders at end of DM.

5. Irulan imprisoned: why? At the end of DM Alia tells Duncan & Stilgar that Paul charged her to preserve Irulan's life. Irulan rejects the BG and says she'll devote herself to raising the Twins. When asked if she finds Irulan trustworthy, Alia says she does. (Alia is an RM, so she has truthsense. Why would they imprison Irulan? The contraceptive she was giving Chani?) Irulan is free later, so this doesn't make much sense: probable fuck up here.

6. There's nothing in the originals that I can find that indicates Bronso of Ix was a friend of Muad'Dib, or that he was anything other than a writer/historian. The two excerpts at the beginning of DM, from his "Death Cell Interview" and his Analysis of History: Muad'Dib, appear to give an inconsistent timeline: in the death cell interview, Bronso speaks of Muad'Dib as though he is still alive and Emperor; in his history, he mentions events from the end of DM (e.g., Korba's plot) and the analysis of other historians of those events ... implying he is writing at a date at least several years later. This could be one of FH inconsistencies that Kevin has decided to "correct".

7. A growing battle between Jessica and Alia? If Jessica is on Caladan and Alia on Arrakis, how can they be fighting other than long-distance through mail?

No mention of following Paul through the desert, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point. Feh.

Redstar · Post by **Redstar** » 29 Mar 2009 03:06

SandChigger wrote:
Redstar wrote:I find myself not recalling some of the events/people mentioned in there. I'm assuming they're mostly House and PoD fabrications?
Um ... no, every character mentioned in that bit I posted is from the originals. (I started a discussion thread over on Amazon about this, but to recap....)

5. Irulan imprisoned: why? At the end of DM Alia tells Duncan & Stilgar that Paul charged her to preserve Irulan's life. Irulan rejects the BG and says she'll devote herself to raising the Twins. When asked if she finds Irulan trustworthy, Alia says she does. (Alia is an RM, so she has truthsense. Why would they imprison Irulan? The contraceptive she was giving Chani?) Irulan is free later, so this doesn't make much sense: probable fuck up here.

6. There's nothing in the originals that I can find that indicates Bronso of Ix was a friend of Muad'Dib, or that he was anything other than a writer/historian. The two excerpts at the beginning of DM, from his "Death Cell Interview" and his Analysis of History: Muad'Dib, appear to give an inconsistent timeline: in the death cell interview, Bronso speaks of Muad'Dib as though he is still alive and Emperor; in his history, he mentions events from the end of DM (e.g., Korba's plot) and the analysis of other historians of those events ... implying he is writing at a date at least several years later. This could be one of FH inconsistencies that Kevin has decided to "correct".

7. A growing battle between Jessica and Alia? If Jessica is on Caladan and Alia on Arrakis, how can they be fighting other than long-distance through mail?

These were the only ones I meant, particularly the "friends with Bronso of Ix" bit.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 29 Mar 2009 04:41

If Chani's death has something to do with Irulan being "imprisoned", I'm sure KJA will have some really tedious explanation for how she regains her freedom.

Making Bronso of Ix the son of cyborg Rhombur (in PoD) is just one more example of the bullshit "Everybody Important has to be Related to or be Friends of Everyone Else!" syndrome.

Anyway, I'm wondering now if the return to Arrakis by Jessica and Gurney is not the inconsistency I thought it was; found this in CoD:

Gurney had chosen to return to Caladan with the Lady Jessica after Paul's death.

Neither was on Arrakis when Paul went into the desert ... implying that they came back.

Unfortunate ... I always hate it when the Hack accidently gets something right. Not to worry, though: I'm sure he'll fuck up plenty of other details.