"New Canon" inconsistencies....

[Freakzilla]

Freak, it's mentioned in the alt.fan.dune FAQ:

- _House Atreides_ makes Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam out to be Jessica's mother. We know definitely that Frank Herbert did not intend this, as it was the only entry in _The Dune Encyclopedia_ he objected to. (Willis McNelly convinced him to let it be included as a joke.)

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/sf/dune-faq/part1/

No source is given for the info, though. Will keep digging.

Yeah, I've seen that. It would be nice to find something more quotable though.

[Tleilax Master B]

I have a reference that discusses that somewhere. I can't for the life of me remember where I got it, but its in a word document at home. I will try to look for it.

[SandChigger]

Oh, look! Another example of how time changes the details, how unreliable are the accounts that people pass down across the generations!

"Later, during Muad'Dib's jihad, an exiled Hasimir Fenring—himself a failed Kwisatz Haderach-acquired the dagger. In a vile plot, he stabbed Muad'Dib deeply in the back. Some say that he died that day from the wound, but that Heaven sent him back among the living, for his work was not yet done. In a miracle he returned to us."

In that instant, Count Fenring moved like a coiled viper, his muscles trained and retrained with years of practice as the Emperor's most reliable assassin. Fenring yanked the Emperor's dagger out of Marie's body and drove the blade deep into Paul's chest.

Obviously, Fenring stabbing Paul in the back is an embellishment added in the telling sometime over the years, no doubt to make Fenring seem more villainous.

I'm sure that's what Kevin would tell us.


(By the way, has anyone else caught the detail that there would have been blood from TWO people on that knife: Paul's and Marie's. )

[Tleszer]

Oh, look! Another example of how time changes the details, how unreliable are the accounts that people pass down across the generations!

"Later, during Muad'Dib's jihad, an exiled Hasimir Fenring—himself a failed Kwisatz Haderach-acquired the dagger. In a vile plot, he stabbed Muad'Dib deeply in the back. Some say that he died that day from the wound, but that Heaven sent him back among the living, for his work was not yet done. In a miracle he returned to us."

In that instant, Count Fenring moved like a coiled viper, his muscles trained and retrained with years of practice as the Emperor's most reliable assassin. Fenring yanked the Emperor's dagger out of Marie's body and drove the blade deep into Paul's chest.

Obviously, Fenring stabbing Paul in the back is an embellishment added in the telling sometime over the years, no doubt to make Fenring seem more villainous.

I'm sure that's what Kevin would tell us.


(By the way, has anyone else caught the detail that there would have been blood from TWO people on that knife: Paul's and Marie's. )

But which one is the truth? Fenring seems like a guy who would like to look into the eyes of the person he is killing, but then again, he is a villain and its so much more dramatic stabbing someone in the back. Actually, if Fenring wouldn't fight Paul in Dune, then he probably would have stabbed him in the back so that he wouldn't have to look into his "brother's" eyes. KHs wouldn't do that to each other.

[Tleszer]

But which one is the truth?

neither.

Well, when you put it that way...

[SandChigger]

But which one is the truth?

In the McDuniverse, I assume it's the PoD account (in the chest), since it's in the narrative. The HunoD (I think I like that better than HuoD) bit is character PoV/in-universe traditional account and therefore potentially erroneous.

At least until the next book comes out and says something completely different.

In the REAL Duniverse, none of it ever happened.

[SandChigger]

Instead of a new factual inconsistency or two, how about we consider a whole bunch of inconsistencies of a different type: stylistic ones.

From the start it appears that they've made a big point of their not having tried to copy Frank Herbert's writing style. But—believe it or not—I think there is one area where they should have made the effort!

Last night I was going through the epigraphs in PoD. I realized the other night when I came across the self-referential one that for the most part I had been ignoring the epigraphs as I skimmed the book. (Understandable, I'm sure you'll agree, since the odds that they have included one or two actually by Frank are slim, and the ones they have come up with on their own thus far have largely been...um, how should I put this? ... shit.)

Along with the usual scattering of quotes by characters of their own which they have jammed into the series (think "anal rape" there), they also include passages from Duniverse writings mentioned by FH in his epigraphs, like A Child's History of Muad'Dib and Conversations with Muad'Dib. I haven't checked thoroughly to see if any of these latter are lifted verbatim from the originals, but I grabbed Dune and Messiah and read through some of the epigraph "quotes" in those books.

And guess what: they don't read like the same person wrote them at all.

A no-brainer, of course. But you'd think a professional "storyteller" would have at least tried to make quotes supposedly from the same fictional book at least sound something like those provided before.



Jeez...what am I thinking? If they'll have Paul born on Kaitain and visiting Ecaz and Grumman before his first trip off Caladan, why would they worry about something as minor as this?!

Never mind.

[SandRider]

wasn't listening in the first place ....

[SandChigger]

[TheDukester]

A no-brainer, of course. But you'd think a professional "storyteller" would have at least tried to make quotes supposedly from the same fictional book at least sound something like those provided before.

I'm sticking with my earlier theory: the chapter headings are the one thing that KJA lets The Sidekick actually write.

And the fact that they are complete horsehit ... well, that just fits right in!

[TheDukester]

Whoah, tough crowd here!

For the record, I like horsies ...

[SandRider]

(somebody had to do it ; might as well be me)

[Ampoliros]

surprisingly the way that Fenring stabbed Paul was the only believable part of this bullshit assassination.

I do find it interesting that Fenring would feel such remorse and sadness over the death of his daughter, who he KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY sent into harms way; even to the point of having contingency assassination plots if she died.


Don't forget KJA has Fenring operating under the assumption that if Paul dies his Jihad will end, and he can usurp the throne.

Fenring = Failed KH :: KJA = Failed Dune

[SandChigger]

A little while ago I sent Kevin an email asking how they're going to retcon having Paul flitting all over the universe when the move to Arrakis is his first trip off Caladan.

Message posted on my blog.

[Nekhrun]

A little while ago I sent Kevin an email asking how they're going to retcon having Paul flitting all over the universe when the move to Arrakis is his first trip off Caladan.

Message posted on my blog.

Shocking. What a condescending prick.

[Omphalos]

Worse than condescending, he's just a moron. His answer makes no sense.

[SandChigger]

Yep. Let's go ahead and post it here, to save people a trip to my blog:

I sent:

Hiya. I do hope you and Rebecca are well.

I find myself in another one of those “gives me heartburn and keeps me awake at night” situations. I’m dying to know how you’re going to retcon Paul traveling to both Ecaz (twice, no less) and Grumman given that, three or four years later, both he and his father seem to think the move to Arrakis will be his first trip off Caladan. As Frank Herbert wrote in Dune:

The Duke looked at him [=Paul]. “This will be your first time off planet,” he said.

Come on, Kevin, be a mensch and share the joy!

Warmest regards,

Ron

He replied:

Your complaints have been incessant, but that one is even sillier than most. It doesn’t seem possible you could ask such a question having actually read PAUL OF DUNE, which is about the inaccuracies and liberties taken in Irulan’s purported histories of Muad’Dib. This is addressed several times in the novel, but most specifically to your question, see pp 102-103:

One morning she went to Paul’s Imperial office to talk with him, holding a first-edition of The Life of Muad’Dib. She dropped the deep blue volume on his desktop, a plane of polished Elaccan bloodwood. “Exactly how much is missing from this story? I’ve been talking with Bludd. In your accounts of your life, you left out vital details.”

He raised his eyebrows. “Your publication has defined my life’s story.”

“You told me you had never left Caladan before your House moved to Arrakis. Whole parts of your youth have been left out.”

“Painful parts.” He frowned at her. “But, more importantly, irrelevant parts. We’ve streamlined the story for mass consumption, just as when you wrote that I was born on Caladan and not Kaitain. It sounds better that way, doesn’t it? We eliminated unnecessary complications, cut off unnecessary questions and explanations.”

She could not hide her frustration. “Sometimes the truth is complicated.”

“Yes, it is.”

“But if I tell a part of the story that directly contradicts what has been published before –“

“If you write it, they will believe it. Trust me.”

Come on, at least TRY to look for an answer before railing about the books. Rest assured, though, that Brian and I will keep writing the novels, and keep writing them, for as long as it takes until you are completely satisfied. You give us the incentive to keep the series going for many years to come.

So I asked:

So your position really is that the entire narrative text of Dune and all of Frank’s books was also written by Irulan?

Simple question, simple answer: Yes or No.

As Nekhrun has pointed out in a comment on the post, they'll have to say it is some Bene Gesserit writing the last three of Frank's books, because Irulan was long dead by then.

(I'm counting on Kevin, if he bothers replying again, to obfuscate and avoid giving a direct answer to the question by pointing out something along those lines. What I get for posting before thinking. Grammatical error, too. )

[TheDukester]

Well, that's it then, right?

The celebration of mediocrity in this country has produced its ultimate KH: it's Kevin J. Anderson, writing whatever the hell he wants to about a universe he did nothing to create, then having the unbelievable arrogance to claim that Frank Herbert's Dune books essentially do not count.

And people spend their money on this shit. Worse yet, people actually defend it. It's just unspeakable.

Further amazement: no one at the HLP seems to care that they've sold out a literary treasure to this talentless Scientology freak. They. Just. Don't. Care. I wonder what it feels like to sell your soul for a few dollars?

So no more feeling sorry for Brian Herbert or giving him the benefit of the doubt. Seriously, Brian, you're selling out your own father, so you can just fuck right off, you pathetic coward. I used to cringe when some of the jokes here about you got a little bit personal, but now I know I've given you way too much of a break. You are a contemptible loser, you third-rate, piece-of-shit wannabe.

And as for you, Kevin "Not Creative Enough To Make My Own Universe" Anderson: the Karma Missile is coming for you, jacktard. Your miserable sales for Paula were just the beginning. You'll be begging for change underneath a bridge inside of 10 years, you miserable fucking hack.

[Serkanner]

I am leaking all kinds of bodily fluids when I read the tripe in the hack's message.

[Ampoliros]

I'll say it again. Kevin, history has already defeated you. You will only be remembered by the same people who like to hail "Plan 9 from Outer Space" because of its horrendous novelty.

If only you could get fat and pregnant like Britney you might have a chance at a comeback, the only problem is; no one cares now, no one will care in 2 years, and no one will care at all in 20.

The only 'fans' you have that give you due attention are those of us here who tear your books apart because of their mediocrity.

Guinness Book of World Records will read: "Most Hated Author: George W Bush's 'tell-all' biography that blames it all on Saddam.

Runner up: some jack-ass who thought he could sell Dune books based on his wide base of late 20 early 21st century cultists who were forced to support him.

[SandChigger]

HEY HEY HEY!

I just figured out who the writer for GEoD and the last two books will be!

Gaus Andaud!


One more thing about Kevin's reply:

Those "irrelevant parts" that Paul mentions in the book quote...those were the very parts that Paul of Dune was written to tell about, no?

[DuneFishUK]

[Tleszer]

Kevin is a fucking piece of shit who should be ashamed of himself for the way that he's destroying not only Dune but Frank Herbert's legacy. To make Frank Herbert's novels irrelevant is a crime that should be held accountable.

"Kevin! Kevin! Kevin!" goes the refrain. "A million deaths were not enough for Kevin!"
-The People Who Actually Understand the Themes Frank Herbert Wrote in Dune

[GamePlayer]

Your complaints have been incessant, but that one is even sillier than most.

Wow, is this guy really THAT easy to wind up? Just how sensitive is this fool? If I call KJA a nancy, will he start crying?

Kevin Anderson's lack of self-control and blatant emo-isms is so funny it's almost bordering on tragic. I'm beginning to see why you are fascinated corresponding with him, SC. That right there is entertainment that's hard to find for free.

The OH should really be proud of themselves. Ordinarily I wouldn't say that, but in this case I just have to let it be known that you guys have done an exceptional job getting to KJA. I have never seen a "professional writer" wear his heart on his sleeve like this and act so totally gullible to even the simplest bait.

KJA, may you go down in history as the most obtuse, immature and spiteful author ever published to a market audience. When the inevitable history of late 20th and early 21st century mediocrity in popular culture is examined by our historians, you're will most assuredly gain a footnote

[TheDukester]

KJA, may you go down in history as the most obtuse, immature and spiteful author ever published to a market audience. When the inevitable history of late 20th and early 21st century mediocrity in popular culture is examined by our historians, you're will most assuredly gain a footnote

You know, I was just thinking about this very subject.

I was picturing some of the critical analysis/history of SF/Fantasy that will be published, say, 20 years from now. Dune, of course, will be recognized as a genre-changing masterpiece. Frank Herbert will be examined in entire chapters.

Those books that even bother to mention him at all will list Kevin J. Anderson as a hack parasite. A laughingstock who never had an original idea of his own and had to steal other people's. The guy that used his Jedi mind tricks to fool Brian Herbert (not that that is any great feat) into letting him make a mockery of his own father's work.

KJA will be a footnote, at best. His McShit novels will be laughed at and forgotten.

And he knows it.