Defense of the New Books

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 17 Nov 2008 23:38

SandChigger wrote:Whoa...Arnie's a bit fixated on me, isn't he?

If he keeps cropping like that, he's going to end up with just your shoulder or something.

Jesus God, what a tool.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Nov 2008 23:43

I think you should sue him for libel and slander and cyberstalking ....

or at the least, file a complaint with photobucket. that's your picture,
and you in the picture, right ? and you didn't give arnie permission to
use it, right ? photobucket's got rules about that in their terms of use - I recently had to read all those, after they deleted a bunch of naked pics of the Six I had uploaded & sent to Mandy .....

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 17 Nov 2008 23:49

Wait a minute; SC has lackeys? Perhaps Simon is right. This board is going downhill

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Nov 2008 23:51

I just assumed he was talking about me.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 17 Nov 2008 23:54

You? A lackey? Never!

A blathering toady perhaps, but you're no lackey

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 17 Nov 2008 23:59

Yeah, fear mah lackays!

But don't worry ... you still my fav'rite, my playyah.

(See how purdy I look in pink. Give you any ideas?)

SandRider...people who even consider suing (or threatening to?

) have already admitted that they're unable to deal with a problem in any other way.

In his pathetic way arnie is just trying to do what I and others have done before him (poor little guy, always playing catch-up), to Kevin and Brian and Byron, etc.

The only difference is, I'm not bothered! I REALLY DO LOVE THE ATTENTION!

MORE, ARNIE, MORE MORE MORE!!!

(Bet he hasn't heard those words in a while.

)

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 17 Nov 2008 23:59

well, thanks for that. I think.

blathering toady for who ?

chig wrote:SandRider...people who even consider suing (or threatening to? ) have already admitted that they're unable to deal with a problem in any other way.
In his pathetic way arnie is just trying to do what I and others have done before him (poor little guy, always playing catch-up), to Kevin and Brian and Byron, etc.

I know this.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 18 Nov 2008 00:02

Jayzuss!

Don't worry that he's already got more than he ever could need, just go with the flow!

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 18 Nov 2008 00:03

now I'm confused .....

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 18 Nov 2008 00:28

So what do SC's lackeys do anyway? It's not like they can be laughing boys or yes-men. That joke that SC knows isn't even funny and when has he ever been right enough to agree with?

It's that damnable pink shirt! I know it! And yes, it is giving me ideas, like perhaps I need one myself. Especially if it gets me lackeys!

I'm going to work on my begging sign...

*Will Wear Pink for Lackeys*

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 20 Nov 2008 06:16

GP, have you, or has anyone else, mentioned this before:

Wikipedians wrote:Accidentally locked inside a test chamber during a nuclear physics experiment, Jon Osterman is completely disintegrated. But rather than dying, Osterman gains godlike powers, the first use of which involves re-constituting his own body. Manhattan's powers include superhuman strength, the ability to teleport himself or others, the manipulation of matter at a subatomic level, and near total clairvoyance.

And from the In-story information box:

Abilities:

Control over space and time,
Regeneration,
Energy and matter manipulation,
Flight,
Immortality,
Superhuman strength, speed and durability,
Intangibility,
Precognition,
Teleportation,
Self-duplication,
Superhuman growth,
Genius intellect

Test chamber, torture chamber; Jon, Norma. Fucking hell: not even at his most original can Kevin have an original idea.

Explain/defend this!

Simon · Post by **Simon** » 20 Nov 2008 12:50

Sounds very Norma like. Ceptin' she gained her powers from torture and a mood rock, no comparison!

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 20 Nov 2008 13:11

Hehehe, great picture. Blue is definitely you

I never made the connection between Doctor Manhattan and KJA because I know almost nothing of Norma. I'm also never inclined to ponder the trash novels of KJA. Remember, I refuse to read Kevin J. Anderson's work, in any franchise or genre, so I am not tuned into his fiction like it's my son.

I will say that KJA's crimes against originality know no bounds and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn he's stolen from Alan Moore. He's stolen from virtually everything without doing anything new with what he steals, so I don't see why Watchmen would be any exception.

Of course it should be noted that Doctor Manhattan isn't an original character either (being a take off Captain Atom). Though it's really irrelevant, since Watchmen was a completely seminal work for comic stories and the need for a super human was essential to the plot, not for the sake of the character itself.

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 20 Nov 2008 14:43

SandChigger wrote:Explain/defend this!

Is that suppose to be Chig or Simon?

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 20 Nov 2008 15:16

at this point, it may be possible that we are dealing with clones .....

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 20 Nov 2008 16:12

I hate to defend them at all but I think they were more so copying (to a greater extreme obviously) what happened to Teg than any other source. But KJA does like to "borrow" from everywhere he can so...

Frybread · Post by **Frybread** » 20 Nov 2008 17:13

Speaking of stealing from other sources, isn't Kevin's "The Saga of Seven Suns" series just a hodge-podge of other authors' SciFi ideas?

I wouldn't know because, after speed-reading PoD, I have vowed never to read another book by Combover and/or That Other Guy.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 20 Nov 2008 17:26

Technically, stealing ideas is how innovation works. It's building upon what was done before. But the key ingredient in creativity is creation and if you use an existing concept, you must use it in a creative way and make it your own.

Sci-fi novels existed before Frank Herbert came along as did the conventions he used. But Frank made those ideas his own and created new ways to tell a sci-fi story. It was Frank's creative vision that made Guild Navigators and space travel fascinating in Dune, even if the end result was just another kind of FTL we've all come to know.

By contrast, there is nothing new in KJA's raping of Dune. Oh sure, KJA's ideas are "new-to-the-Dune-universe" in as much as Dune never had "Terminators" or "Doctor Manhattans". But none of these concepts have been innovated by KJA or made his own. These ideas taken from others have had their names changed and been slapped into the Dune universe.

KJA's "creations" are not new to sci-fi; not conceptually, not thematically and not practically. He has brought nothing new to the genre in which he writes and has made no contribution; no art, no innovation, nothing of note. KJA's only contribution to sci-fi has been sales; I hope he's comfortable with that, but his publicly hurt ego indicates otherwise.

Frybread · Post by **Frybread** » 20 Nov 2008 17:51

GamePlayer wrote:Technically, stealing ideas is how innovation works. It's building upon what was done before. But the key ingredient in creativity is creation and if you use an existing concept, you must use it in a creative way and make it your own.

Sci-fi novels existed before Frank Herbert came along as did the conventions he used. But Frank made those ideas his own and created new ways to tell a sci-fi story. It was Frank's creative vision that made Guild Navigators and space travel fascinating in Dune, even if the end result was just another kind of FTL we've all come to know.

By contrast, there is nothing new in KJA's raping of Dune. Oh sure, KJA's ideas are "new-to-the-Dune-universe" in as much as Dune never had "Terminators" or "Doctor Manhattans". But none of these concepts have been innovated by KJA or made his own. These ideas taken from others have had their names changed and been slapped into the Dune universe.

KJA's "creations" are not new to sci-fi; not conceptually, not thematically and not practically. He has brought nothing new to the genre in which he writes and has made no contribution; no art, no innovation, nothing of note. KJA's only contribution to sci-fi has been sales; I hope he's comfortable with that, but his publicly hurt ego indicates otherwise.

I agree. The idea of killer robots and A.I. is not new, but James Cameron made his use of them unique in "The Terminator."

Then there is Combover, who simply repackages existing SciFi ideas without making them uniquely his own.

Frybread · Post by **Frybread** » 20 Nov 2008 18:01

Frybread wrote:
GamePlayer wrote:Technically, stealing ideas is how innovation works. It's building upon what was done before. But the key ingredient in creativity is creation and if you use an existing concept, you must use it in a creative way and make it your own.

Sci-fi novels existed before Frank Herbert came along as did the conventions he used. But Frank made those ideas his own and created new ways to tell a sci-fi story. It was Frank's creative vision that made Guild Navigators and space travel fascinating in Dune, even if the end result was just another kind of FTL we've all come to know.

By contrast, there is nothing new in KJA's raping of Dune. Oh sure, KJA's ideas are "new-to-the-Dune-universe" in as much as Dune never had "Terminators" or "Doctor Manhattans". But none of these concepts have been innovated by KJA or made his own. These ideas taken from others have had their names changed and been slapped into the Dune universe.

KJA's "creations" are not new to sci-fi; not conceptually, not thematically and not practically. He has brought nothing new to the genre in which he writes and has made no contribution; no art, no innovation, nothing of note. KJA's only contribution to sci-fi has been sales; I hope he's comfortable with that, but his publicly hurt ego indicates otherwise.
I agree. The idea of killer robots and A.I. is not new, but James Cameron made his use of them unique in "The Terminator."

Then there is Combover, who simply repackages existing SciFi ideas without making them uniquely his own.

I would add that sales is not enough to Combover. He wants to be worshipped as a Sci-fi godling greater than all who have come before him, including Frank Herbert.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 20 Nov 2008 18:47

Simon wrote:Sounds very Norma like. Ceptin' she gained her powers from torture and a mood rock, no comparison!

Ah, yes, the magical soostone, forgot to mention THAT important ingredient.

Add to your list explaining how and why soostones—"tumors" from the outer shell of a sea-thingy—suddenly became magical in the Legends books.

(Btw, I've got this massive zit welling up on me bum that shows promise...think it would be worth gambling the cost of passage to the market on Gingdalba?

)

Lundse · Post by **Lundse** » 20 Nov 2008 18:58

GamePlayer wrote:Technically, stealing ideas is how innovation works. It's building upon what was done before. But the key ingredient in creativity is creation and if you use an existing concept, you must use it in a creative way and make it your own.

...

By contrast, there is nothing new in KJA's raping of Dune.

Very true. But I think it is about how you use the paints and the canvas - it was all there before, and it is all in the mix.
Dune, for instance, is a splendid 'canvas' rich with meaning, characters, history and themes...

Oh, to hell with it!

I am too tired - you know what I am getting at.
Suffice to say that splashing on a sticker of a my little pony or painting a psycho robot with crayons does not improve a Rembrandt...

TheDukester · Post by **TheDukester** » 20 Nov 2008 20:14

Frybread wrote:Speaking of stealing from other sources, isn't Kevin's "The Saga of Seven Suns" series just a hodge-podge of other authors' SciFi ideas?

It's like every space opera idea that has ever been written was thrown into a blender and then stretched out into seven books' worth of hiking and dictating. Not an original thought to be found.

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 21 Nov 2008 23:45

TheDukester wrote:
Frybread wrote:Speaking of stealing from other sources, isn't Kevin's "The Saga of Seven Suns" series just a hodge-podge of other authors' SciFi ideas?
It's like every space opera idea that has ever been written was thrown into a blender and then stretched out into seven books' worth of hiking and dictating. Not an original thought to be found.

More like he ate space opera and puked it in seven books...

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 22 Nov 2008 00:00

Rakis wrote:
TheDukester wrote:
Frybread wrote:Speaking of stealing from other sources, isn't Kevin's "The Saga of Seven Suns" series just a hodge-podge of other authors' SciFi ideas?
It's like every space opera idea that has ever been written was thrown into a blender and then stretched out into seven books' worth of hiking and dictating. Not an original thought to be found.
More like he ate space opera and puked it in seven books...

So he's a bird trying to nurture his young?