Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

SandChigger wrote:I seriously can't believe how many of you say that bad writing would have been acceptable if it weren't for the inconsistencies.

I just don't get that at all.

Interesting, creative extensions/developments of the storylines, consistent with what Frank wrote, expressed in well crafted language. Why is it too much to ask for all of that?

I am not saying I would be a fan, if the writing was as bad as the current 'attempt'. I am just saying I would not call it sacrilege and would not hate the author...

The current 'obviously, Frank got the entire Jihad wrong - didn't he see Terminator?'-mindset of the hack and Brian Herbert And (love that name) is what is truly pissing me off...

Omphalos wrote: You know what? I actually think that FH only told BH that he was thinking about doing a Dune book with him because he knew he was dying and wanted to preserve the decent relationship that he had finally achieved with his son. He probably felt guilty about his life with Brian and Bruce, and figured that he only had so much time to make up for the past before he went on to his great reward. So he said it and BH glommed onto it like he was still a hotel maid with no future otherwise.

"Sure Brian, let's do a Dune book together. Excuse me a sec...Hey Ransom is today's coffee still on?"

Bijaz wrote:

Omphalos wrote: You know what? I actually think that FH only told BH that he was thinking about doing a Dune book with him because he knew he was dying and wanted to preserve the decent relationship that he had finally achieved with his son. He probably felt guilty about his life with Brian and Bruce, and figured that he only had so much time to make up for the past before he went on to his great reward. So he said it and BH glommed onto it like he was still a hotel maid with no future otherwise.

"Sure Brian, let's do a Dune book together. Excuse me a sec...Hey Ransom is today's coffee still on?"

yea. I love it. FH goes from working with a Pulitzer Prize winning author, to his dumb ass stoner kid. I get wanting to provide for the future of your family, but some things just aint worth the cost.

Omphalos wrote:his dumb ass stoner kid

Technically, Bruce was the stoner. Brian was an alky.

our playyah wrote:Hopefully KJA and the other guy will continue providing the ammunition we need to fire off more of these

Well, Kevvy did promise-threaten me to do just that in his last email, no? Until they had "satisfied" me, IIRC.



HEY, OMPH! If I publicly announce that I accept his offer, would that create a contractual relationship, allowing me to sue the bastard for non-fulfillment (or whatever you call it) when he stops writing?!

SandChigger wrote:HEY, OMPH! If I publicly announce that I accept his offer, would that create a contractual relationship, allowing me to sue the bastard for non-fulfillment (or whatever you call it) when he stops writing?!

Kevin stops writing? How does that damage anyone?

The Original Dune is a literary masterpiece and treasure.. the following books are a life changing experience. GodEmperor specifically is unbelievably wonderous. As another poster put it "the beautiful prose of Frank Herbert".

The combination of all the things listed that the corpse rapers have done are the REASON why the folks here and otherwhere are enraged.

I believe a motto of OHers would be " Working to preserve and prosper the Works of the Master Science Fiction author Frank Herbert." But I am not a wordsmith so Im sure more learnered and experienced OHers could build on that.

I personally have read every word of the hacks books, for research and curiosity sake, and have been at every turn completely appauled and disgusted with them. The latest drival, POD, is the worst of the lot, and that is two fold. They wrote outside the originals before, and then tried to finish the series (those two books hunters and sandworms are just terrible and aweful for all the reasons listed) but with POD they have breached completely hallowed ground. The interviews with the blatent arrogance about how they are going to "explain" the jihad, paul's darkness, etc. It is complete crap, pure and simple.


Look at it this way, DUNE, Book 1, PAGE 1, Epigraph 1, paul was born on caladan, FACT. They cant even get this simple thing right, and argue the point, continuously, across the crap they have written right up the latest book. Within the 1st 120 pages they try to justify there wrong about his birthplace they created, 4 diffrent times, just stupid.

They state they are the number one dune fans, but have no understanding of the works themselves. They feel they have to turn everything into a 700 page explanation and reiteration because thats "they're" style, Bullshit!! His own son and sidekick should have taken PAINSTAKING CARE.. in every word they put down to ensure it was something worthy of the namesake. They did not, have not, and are not. They are on the "Dictaphone" Publishing train, pumping out worthless garbage... and destroying a legacy.

This new assault they have conjured of "heroes" of dune is the worst heresy yet and should be stopped. I hope FH comes back from the grave and reachs into their souless bodies and spirit shocks the shit out of them!!

I have listened/watched multiple interviews of FH and I sit mesmorized as he talks about the creation of dune, working with Lynch and so forth, the passion and dedication is amazing. I have watched/listened to butman and the boy wonder and all I want to do is yell for them to shutup and pissoff!!!

I have probaly gone on to long, but thats another part of what it is to be OH. You carry it with you all the time, on a hair trigger. You also carry with you the passion for the greatness of Franks works and seeing them passed along to others.

Ill leave it at that, hope that helps some.
Trang

So did you guys read through all of the new books completely??? or do you get a few pages in and throw it in the fire??

Trang wrote:But I am not a wordsmith so Im sure more learnered and experienced OHers could build on that.

Don't sell yourself short, son. That there's just beautimous.

Trang wrote:I have probaly gone on to long, but thats another part of what it is to be OH. You carry it with you all the time, on a hair trigger

Good point. That's what Andrew Ian Dodge is finding out.

Seraphan wrote:...a hack writer that is incapable of even understanding, or recognizing, any thematical content in the Frankenstein novel by Mary Shelley.

I thought that was a figure of speach. Got suspicious. Googled it. He really is that much of a moron when it comes to literary appreciation (we know he is when it comes to writing)...

I have decided this is funny, because the alternative is just too f...ing sad.

So:

The only one I haven't read is their latest "Paul of Dune," though I really should have stopped reading the books much sooner. The only good thing about my experience with those books is that it led to my increased interest in reading. Before reading "House Atreides" I was only doing reading for school assignments. After reading their dredge I moved on to Frank Herbert's Duniverse and started reading for myself again.

But I guess I shouldn't thank them so much as thank the "Dune-brand," since I had already seen the David Lynch movie and the miniseries.

Lundse wrote:

Seraphan wrote:...a hack writer that is incapable of even understanding, or recognizing, any thematical content in the Frankenstein novel by Mary Shelley.

I thought that was a figure of speach. Got suspicious. Googled it. He really is that much of a moron when it comes to literary appreciation (we know he is when it comes to writing).

Is Hacky on the record somewhere saying that Frankenstein is "just about a monster" or something equally stupid?

from the Wordfire Blawg "Booklist"

Kevin J. Anderson and Dean Koontz
DEAN KOONTZ'S FRANKENSTEIN: PRODIGAL SON (pb)............................. 0-553-58788-9

I always assumed this was what Seraphan was referring to.

mulletsavant wrote:So did you guys read through all of the new books completely??? or do you get a few pages in and throw it in the fire??

I've read 'em all but can't finish Paul of Dune. I want to, just so I can rip it the way it should be ripped, but damn it's shit.

mulletsavant wrote:So did you guys read through all of the new books completely??? or do you get a few pages in and throw it in the fire??

Don't believe the line sometimes used by those nacnud-biters over on Dumb Novels, to the effect that we criticize the books without having read them, because it's simply not true.

You can predict—based on their nine "Dune" books to date, their unchanging "writing" method, and the negligible evidence of any improvement in their abilities over time—that any new book by them will probably also suck. But unless you read something yourself, you can never definitely state as much with any authority. You can only quote others.

I have read and I have seen. The books are shit.

I've told my story in parts, I'll try to do it briefly. (good luck with that)

I read Frank's books as they were published - well, I was about a year late on the
first one. I wasn't all that pleased with the last two - but only plot-wise. (Frank lost
me with the sexual awakening stuff)

When House Atreides was released, I picked it up and read just a small part - I
was not aware of KJA or his previous books, but I still thought "Well, they're
Star-Warsing Dune now - oh well." I did not read the others and paid ZERO
attention. I'm not a science fiction reader.

This summer I saw a paperback of Sandworms, with the "based on Frank's outline"
lie - I began reading it. WHAT THE FUCK ? Having not read the other prequels,
or Hunters, I had no idea what the fuck they were talking about. Same kiddie writing
style, tho. About halfway thru Sandworms, I quit. (I've not read another word)

I've not been much of an internet user. I've been involved for a few years in history
and Civil War discussion boards, so I thought, I bet there's one out there for Dune.

Then I blew my back out.

I read all over Merritt's site, the "official board" - alot of stuff has been deleted, but there's
enough still buried to get an idea of what went on. I found a link to jacurutu in someone's
sig. (TMB, I believe). Started reading over here and got some questions answered, but had
many more. (like, WHAT THE FUCK ? and HOW THE FUCK ? and GODDAMN ?!?)

I signed up for Merritt's board and this one on the same day. Merritt has to activate accounts.
Freak doesn't. So I started posting here, and got me an education, I tell yew whut. (Merritt
never did activate the SandRider account Over There)

The rest is Dune Jihad history.

Chig is dead right - I say the books suck because people I trust have read them and say they
suck, then post why. I don't need to read the books for myself. I hate Keith, anyway. Then
Merritt pissed me off personally. Plus, I'm naturally a mean-spirited, sarcastic bastard.

So while I can't quote the inconsistencies and so forth, that's actually a good thing. My memory of
Dune has been (largely) untainted. I've got a general idea of what the new books are about, like
reading a synopsis, but for me, they have no connection with my Dune.

this one's been bothering me - it's what's "wrong" with KJA's noDune -

Bel Moulay wrote:
I dont think I have the authority to vote on this poll considering that I haven't read all of the prequils. About an hour ago I finally finished the Legends Triology and I was extremely impressed. I also liked how they deepend my view and outlook on the Duniverse. Prior to reading them I've only read Dune and Dune Messiah and I still didn't fully grasp the importance of the Guild and Melange until a year later (a month ago) I picked up The Butlerian Jihad and I seriously couldn't put either of the 3 down!

Now after a year I'm going to re-read the first Dune and go from there to Sandworms. In all honesty all 3 of the triology books were good but so far I'm stumped between Battle of Corrin and The Machine Crusade.

This poor dumb fucker says he's going to read Sandworms next. (not even Hunters)
He hasn't read all of Frank's books yet.

Dune
Dune Messiah
Legends of noDune Threeway
Sandworms of noDune

How is he supposed to have ANY UNDERSTANDING AT ALL of what he's reading ?
It's hard to tell from his posts, I know, but he MAY BE an intelligent person, capable of comprehending
Frank. Thanks to KJA (and Merritt, now) he will have no clue. Miss the point. Think of Dune like Star Wars.

Where's your defense of THAT, Simon ?

I have read the three "House" books and the three "Jihad" books. After "The battle of Corrin" I just couldn't take any more of the crap these two morons have written. It is just too bad in any and all aspect.

Bel Moulay wrote:I saw someone mention a quote from Leto II about seeing distant roads and cities that were alien to him. Could it possibly be the organized city grids of the machine cities? I mean they would be alien to him considering it's impossible to store any ancestrial memories from machines for so many obvious reasons. What if the golden path was to strengthen mankind against it's ancient arch-nemesis who have been rapidly growing in the farthest reaches of the universe. Not only could Leto II wanted to strengthen the human race but also multiply their numbers for the ultimate battle ahead.

Do you see, Simon ?
Do you see what your Heroes have done ?

House Atreides - C+ Good first attempt, the only way is up - Long live Dune!
House Harkonnen - C- More of the same.
House Corrino - D WTF? This is shit!

Butlerian Jihad - E Unreadable.
Machine Crusade - n/a
Battle of Corrin - n/a

Hunters of Dune - FAIL
Sandworms of Dune - n/a No fucking chance.

Paul of Dune - D Complete waste of time

Tleszer wrote:The only one I haven't read is their latest "Paul of Dune," though I really should have stopped reading the books much sooner.

Same here. Cant take it anymore.

About the problem with the new books. For me its mostly the terrible writing. Its not just below FH's, which was expected, but downright some of the worst Ive seen in any book.

Sure, inconsistencies are annoying too, but I think I could look past most of those if the books were just good...

I would rate House Atreides as a reasonable start for them actually (or maybe it was just because of the short lived joy of having a new Dune book, before we realized how the cow would be milked ver the next years), maybe they actually did have some notes to use in various places there (while other parts where just terrifyingly sad to read), but the House books, and Jihad books... just terrible.
Contrary to most others I believe, I actually found Hunters to be an improvement in their writing (granted, it could hardly get worse) - again it might be due to actual existence of some FH notes they managed to hide between their own crap. And then it went all wrong again in Sandwoms.

Shadout wrote:

Tleszer wrote:The only one I haven't read is their latest "Paul of Dune," though I really should have stopped reading the books much sooner.

Same here. Cant take it anymore.

About the problem with the new books. For me its mostly the terrible writing. Its not just below FH's, which was expected, but downright some of the worst Ive seen in any book.

Sure, inconsistencies are annoying too, but I think I could look past most of those if the books were just good...

I would rate House Atreides as a reasonable start for them actually (or maybe it was just because of the short lived joy of having a new Dune book, before we realized how the cow would be milked ver the next years), maybe they actually did have some notes to use in various places there (while other parts where just terrifyingly sad to read), but the House books, and Jihad books... just terrible.
Contrary to most others I believek, I actually found Hunters to be an improvlement in their writing (granted, it could hardly get worse) - again it might be due to actual existence of some FH notes they managed to hide between their own crap. And then it went all wrong again in Sandwoms.

In regards to their writing i actually thought they got worse in hunters, and this was before i began to really hate them.

mulletsavant wrote:So did you guys read through all of the new books completely??? or do you get a few pages in and throw it in the fire??

I bought and read up through Hunters of Dune (including Road to Dune, of which I refuse to read their Spice Planet)when I realized they really were going to try to tell us Marty and Daniel were Omnius and Erasmus. I just couldn't take any more of that, it's a joke.

Baraka Bryan wrote:

SandRider wrote:

Bel Moulay wrote:
Now after a year I'm going to re-read the first Dune and go from there to Sandworms. In all honesty all 3 of the triology books were good but so far I'm stumped between Battle of Corrin and The Machine Crusade.

This poor dumb fucker says he's going to read Sandworms next. (not even Hunters)

i htink he means re-reading Dune and reading through the series to Chapterhouse then the retards-r-us conclusion.
at any rate, his love for the legends trilogy discounts any credibility he gets for wanting to re-read dune.

nosir, somewhere in this mess of twisted threads is the quote from
Over There - he says he read Dune & Dune Messiah, then Legends.
And that is where he is at now. I asked Simon to defend that,
seeing as how he thinks the new books are 'harmless' - it's already
fucked this guy up beyond redemption.

I mean there's a sticky thread up top all about this subject...I say go looking there, mullet. Start with page one, and don't stop reading until you're weeping in a corner.

I read the books in the order of their release, so I started with Dune and worked right through, including the Prequels and Legends books, finishing with Hunters. By then Frank's books had become buried amongst visions of crossdressing robots and mentally deranged computer programmes, so I decided to clear all the shit out of my head and re-read Frank's books. Despite warnings from well-meaning people on here, i then went on to read Hunters again and then read Sandworms. I think Sandworms is the worst of the lot, the hack had achieved what I thought was the impossible and his "writing" had actually deteriorated.

Baraka Bryan wrote:

chanilover wrote:I read the books in the order of their release, so I started with Dune and worked right through, including the Prequels and Legends books, finishing with Hunters. By then Frank's books had become buried amongst visions of crossdressing robots and mentally deranged computer programmes, so I decided to clear all the shit out of my head and re-read Frank's books. Despite warnings from well-meaning people on here, i then went on to read Hunters again and then read Sandworms. I think Sandworms is the worst of the lot, the hack had achieved what I thought was the impossible and his "writing" had actually deteriorated.

I did the same reading pattern and after sandworms, had to go back and read the real Dune series again to try and purge the shit from my mind.

apparently I didn't learn the lesson though because I still read PoD... I'm on the fence regarding whether or not i'll read any of the rest of this quadruped-of-retardation

I'm the same in that I read PoD after reading the shitfest that is SoD. But PoD bored me enough that I probably won't read any more KJA/BH books. I'll just do what most do here and read summaries of the books and save my brain cells to be destroyed by alcohol.