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Over There » For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // today

Merritt wrote:This argument seems to always lead nowhere. The OHers believe man vs. man with machine only, while those that enjoyed the prequels/sequels believe otherwise. It's like trying to prove who's right and who's wrong in the Middle East.

katee84 wrote:I don't know how else to say this, Byron, and I've tried. The reason the argument always leads nowhere is that there is just no way to reconcile the two visions of the Butlerian Jihad. Had Brian & Kevin chose to write Dune7, finishing the story Frank Herbert started, then went on from there, into the future of the Dune Universe, there would not have been all this controversy. At this point, and you know this, it's not just "inconsistencies", it's a massive re-imagining of the original universe. And with Paul of Dune being between Dune and Dune Messiah, it's a re-imagining of the original story as well.

Surely you understand the reaction of fans. Frank was once asked if he had intended to start a "cult" with the Dune books. How can you be surprised at their intensity ?

I'm going to take alot of heat for saying this, but I don't really mind the new books. They are "Dune-lite", with none of the subtlies and sophistication of the Classics, but it was clear from the beginning that Brian and Kevin were not writing for the old audience, anyway. But on their own, they fit into a common genre of science fiction being produced today, like the Warhammer 40K series, or all the Star Wars books.

I've said this before : I don't have any fight with Brian and the HLP for the way they've choosen to handle the Dune franchise. I can't, those aren't my decisions to make, and to argue with you about it is to misunderstand how the real world works. I can understand the "Destroying Frank's Legacy" argument, but I think Frank Herbert's work will stand the test of time unscathed.

No, my fight is with the readers on this and other boards that twist Frank's story to fit the new stories. (And this does include you, Byron : I've got a considerable list of quotes from you on this board where you have demostratably misunderstood or misinterpreted a passage of Frank Herbert to support the new books - your status as the boardadmin and HLP member does not exempt you from criticism for such statements about the original books. In fact, it enhances your responsibility - if Arnoldo quotes something completely irrelevant or off-the-point, well, that's just Arnoldo.)

Point One : Frank Herbert's Butlerlian Jihad was a war of men against men with machines.
Point Two : Brian & Kevin's Butlerian Jihad was a war of men against autonomous robots.
Point Three : Point Two does not invalidate or alter Point One.



Happy Holidays.

Mandy wrote:Isn't that quote from Paul's fight with Jamis? He wouldn't have known much about Crysknifes at that point.

Jamis called out in ritual challenge: "May thy knife chip and shatter!"
This knife will break then, Paul thought.

Over There » Characters of Dune » Baron Vladimir Harkonnen

Arnie wrote:Yet Feyd and the Baron had a deep distrust of each other. Feyd very nearly succeeds in assassinating the Baron when Feyd arranges a slave to kill the Baron; which would’ve succeeded hadn’t Thufir alerted the Baron. After his plan is discovered Feyd fears for his very life however the Baron convinces Feyd not to try to kill him - - for the he will one day assist Feyd to become Emperor. Behind all of these plans one has to wonder if Thufir is merely plotting to use the Harkonens to get his revenge against the Emperor.

katee84 wrote:Okay, but what about this :

Paul glanced at the crysknife. There was no shearing guard; only the slim round ring of the handle with its raised lip to protect the hand. And even so, he realized that he did not know the breaking tension of this blade, did not even know if it could be broken.

Merritt wrote:

katee84 wrote:THANK YOU !! That is my exact response to every third or fourth post Arnoldo puts up !!

Merritt wrote:Oh come on now. You can make the connections with Arnoldo ...at least I can. If you can't ...well ...that might say something, too.

SandRider wrote:

Over There » For Lovers of both the Classic Dune AND the Prequels » God Emperor of Dune (Let's Review) // today

Merritt wrote:This argument seems to always lead nowhere. The OHers believe man vs. man with machine only, while those that enjoyed the prequels/sequels believe otherwise. It's like trying to prove who's right and who's wrong in the Middle East.

katee84 wrote:I don't know how else to say this, Byron, and I've tried. The reason the argument always leads nowhere is that there is just no way to reconcile the two visions of the Butlerian Jihad. Had Brian & Kevin chose to write Dune7, finishing the story Frank Herbert started, then went on from there, into the future of the Dune Universe, there would not have been all this controversy. At this point, and you know this, it's not just "inconsistencies", it's a massive re-imagining of the original universe. And with Paul of Dune being between Dune and Dune Messiah, it's a re-imagining of the original story as well.

Surely you understand the reaction of fans. Frank was once asked if he had intended to start a "cult" with the Dune books. How can you be surprised at their intensity ?

I'm going to take alot of heat for saying this, but I don't really mind the new books. They are "Dune-lite", with none of the subtlies and sophistication of the Classics, but it was clear from the beginning that Brian and Kevin were not writing for the old audience, anyway. But on their own, they fit into a common genre of science fiction being produced today, like the Warhammer 40K series, or all the Star Wars books.

I've said this before : I don't have any fight with Brian and the HLP for the way they've choosen to handle the Dune franchise. I can't, those aren't my decisions to make, and to argue with you about it is to misunderstand how the real world works. I can understand the "Destroying Frank's Legacy" argument, but I think Frank Herbert's work will stand the test of time unscathed.

No, my fight is with the readers on this and other boards that twist Frank's story to fit the new stories. (And this does include you, Byron : I've got a considerable list of quotes from you on this board where you have demostratably misunderstood or misinterpreted a passage of Frank Herbert to support the new books - your status as the boardadmin and HLP member does not exempt you from criticism for such statements about the original books. In fact, it enhances your responsibility - if Arnoldo quotes something completely irrelevant or off-the-point, well, that's just Arnoldo.)

Point One : Frank Herbert's Butlerlian Jihad was a war of men against men with machines.
Point Two : Brian & Kevin's Butlerian Jihad was a war of men against autonomous robots.
Point Three : Point Two does not invalidate or alter Point One.



Happy Holidays.

{edit - katee84 just got Freakbanned for that}{and a very Merry Christmas to you, too, Byron !}
{edit - & yeah, that post was deleted ....... }

SandRider wrote:he sure got the ear-hair right, tho ....

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:Oh My, is it the "alien roads" question again? English is not my first language, however, even I can see that "alien roads" means something strange, exotic or never explored before....

I could be wrong, but wasn't the word "Alien" used to refer to E.T.'s only after the Ridley Scott's Alien?

Serkanner wrote:Is it a bad thing that I watched only one episode ever of the Dr. in my entire (40) life?