"New Canon" Inconsistency Concordance

[Slugger]

I've always pictured Duncan as the black guy.

I always pictured him has being from some Sicilian root.

Doesn't it describe him in Heretics as having pink skin (sun-tanned except where clothing covered)?

[Mandy]

I've always pictured Duncan as the black guy.

I always pictured him has being from some Sicilian root.

You're a cantelope.

[YouTube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA[/YouTube]

You only need to put what's after the = inside the tags.

[YouTube]tqccyUpnZwA[/YouTube]

(which still didn't work, for some reason)

[Freakzilla]

I've always pictured Duncan as the black guy.

I always pictured him has being from some Sicilian root.

Doesn't it describe him in Heretics as having pink skin (sun-tanned except where clothing covered)?

The child on the lawn appeared to be about twelve standard years of age, but
appearance could be deceptive with a ghola not yet awakened to his original
memories. The child took that moment to look up at the watchers above him. He
was a sturdy figure with a direct gaze that focused intently from beneath a
black cap of karakul hair. The yellow sunlight of early spring cast a small
shadow at his feet. His skin was darkly tanned but a slight movement of his
body shifted his blue singlesuit, revealing pale skin at the left shoulder.

[Freakzilla]

I've always pictured Duncan as the black guy.

I always pictured him has being from some Sicilian root.

You're a cantelope.

[YouTube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA[/YouTube]

You only need to put what's after the = inside the tags.

[YouTube]tqccyUpnZwA[/YouTube]

(which still didn't work, for some reason)

I've noticed some videos don't allow imbedding.

[DuneFishUK]

Didn't this OM discussion get started over whether or not Jessica would have known and it would have been important enough for FH to mention if the RM Gaius Helen Mohaim was her mother. Cos even if the memory is not demanding, and Jessica had to go searching it, it seems obvious that her mother is going to be first in line. In any case she'd know who her mother was at the time she first gets OM.
...
Anyhow, if RM Gaius Helen Mohaim where Jessica's mother, Frank'd have said so. So it is an inconsistency that the KJA/BH books have propagated "because it's cool".

They have claimed that GHM being Jessica's mother was supported by FH's notes.

...Although they only found out after they wrote it... whoa! spooky! Frank's ghost smiling down on his magnificent sons!

Only it's not. It's a predictable hacky plotline that FH probably discarded because it was exactly that.

[TheDukester]

Is that Chris Tucker?

I don't think so. It's from a set of pieces an artist did for the Avalon Hill DUNE boardgame, so I think it's just the artist's interpretation. That piece stuck with me because, honestly, my mental image of Duncan was much like the actor who played him in the first miniseries, not of a black man.

[Freakzilla]

Didn't this OM discussion get started over whether or not Jessica would have known and it would have been important enough for FH to mention if the RM Gaius Helen Mohaim was her mother. Cos even if the memory is not demanding, and Jessica had to go searching it, it seems obvious that her mother is going to be first in line. In any case she'd know who her mother was at the time she first gets OM.
...
Anyhow, if RM Gaius Helen Mohaim where Jessica's mother, Frank'd have said so. So it is an inconsistency that the KJA/BH books have propagated "because it's cool".

They have claimed that GHM being Jessica's mother was supported by FH's notes.

...Although they only found out after they wrote it... whoa! spooky! Frank's ghost smiling down on his magnificent sons!

Only it's not. It's a predictable hacky plotline that FH probably discarded because it was exactly that.

For a minute there I thought GHM meant Great Honored Matre.

[Freakzilla]

Is that Chris Tucker?

I don't think so. It's from a set of pieces an artist did for the Avalon Hill DUNE boardgame, so I think it's just the artist's interpretation. That piece stuck with me because, honestly, my mental image of Duncan was much like the actor who played him in the first miniseries, not of a black man.

I guess it was his hair that made me think he was black. Allthough I never really figured out what karukul hair was...

Nearby, more an outflanker than a member of the group, stood Duncan Idaho in
glittering dress uniform, flat face unreadable, the curling black hair neatly
combed.

...

Idaho's dark, round face was drawn into a frown. His hair, curling like the
fur of a black goat, was plastered with dirt.

...

Leto remained silent while the Duncan approached, observing details. The Duncan
still walked with the spring of youth despite all of his long service. He could
thank a minimal ingestion of melange for that. The man wore the old Atreides
uniform, black with a golden hawk at the left breast. An interesting statement,
that: "I serve the honor of the old Atreides!" His hair was still the black cap
of karakul, the features fixed in stony sharpness with high cheekbones.

Besides, Gurney was blonde.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I always pictured him as spanish/half black-ish.

[Redstar]

I guess it was his hair that made me think he was black. Allthough I never really figured out what karukul hair was.

That's interesting. I never would have thought him black, since my idea of curly was more the typical rendition of curly hair... If FH had said "kinky hair" I might have gotten the same mental image as you, but the goat-hair comparison does seem to fit both ways.

I guess I'm one of those "white unless stated otherwise" kinda readers, which is unfortunate. Heinlein had a lot of dark-skinned or black characters that he would wait until a quarter or even half-way through the book to surprise the reader and their preconceived notions of "hero".

[TheDukester]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

[Freakzilla]

I guess it was his hair that made me think he was black. Allthough I never really figured out what karukul hair was.

That's interesting. I never would have thought him black, since my idea of curly was more the typical rendition of curly hair... If FH had said "kinky hair" I might have gotten the same mental image as you, but the goat-hair comparison does seem to fit both ways.

I guess I'm one of those "white unless stated otherwise" kinda readers, which is unfortunate. Heinlein had a lot of dark-skinned or black characters that he would wait until a quarter or even half-way through the book to surprise the reader and their preconceived notions of "hero".

I don't think it's a mental image I had when I first read Dune (and the pale skin reference from HoD kinda kills it anyway) but throughout the series race (skin color) seems to be totally random. Duke Leto was olive skinned, however Leto II's face is described as pink. Malky and Hwi are certainly black. There are blonde Fremen, there are olive skinned Fremen.

After reading this thread I'm probably always going to think of Christopher Walken as Duncan.

[A Thing of Eternity]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

Who gets revealed at the end of Troopers? Rico?

[Freakzilla]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

Who gets revealed at the end of Troopers? Rico?

Rico is black?

[Redstar]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

Who gets revealed at the end of Troopers? Rico?

Rico is black?

Rico is dark-skinned Puerto Rican.

And R.A.H mostly pulled that with his Juveniles.

[Freakzilla]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

Who gets revealed at the end of Troopers? Rico?

Rico is black?

Rico is dark-skinned Puerto Rican.

And R.A.H mostly pulled that with his Juveniles.

Puerto-Rico! Clever!

[Redstar]

And, of course, the very last page for Starship Troopers. One of my favorite "reveals" ever.

Who gets revealed at the end of Troopers? Rico?

Rico is black?

Rico is dark-skinned Puerto Rican.

And R.A.H mostly pulled that with his Juveniles.

Puerto-Rico! Clever!

Hey, at least he was ethnically Filipino too...

[A Thing of Eternity]

But isn't the fact that he isn't white fairly obvious? I didn't think that was a big reveal at the end of Troopers. Am I missing something?

[Freakzilla]

But isn't the fact that he isn't white fairly obvious? I didn't think that was a big reveal at the end of Troopers. Am I missing something?

I haven't read it yet. In the movie he was from Beunos Aries.

[Redstar]

But isn't the fact that he isn't white fairly obvious? I didn't think that was a big reveal at the end of Troopers. Am I missing something?

As I said, it was more something found in his Juveniles... But at the same time he didn't exactly go out of his way to say "This character here, he's not Anglo-Saxon Protestant".

Though with the various film adaptations out, it might surprise people that came in through that gateway.

[TheDukester]

But isn't the fact that he isn't white fairly obvious?

Not really. He's "Johnny" on every page of the book but that last ... all of the characters speak a bland sort of American English until Johnny's Tagalog quote on the last page ... it's little stuff like that that probably had (has) the average Amercian reader just sort of assuming he's a WASP.

Actually, what happens is that you reach the end of the book and realize that Heinlein really hasn't described Rico much at all. Other characters, yes (Zim is big; Carl is smart, etc.), but you get to the end of Troopers without knowing a lot about Rico's physical qualities (other than he's generally tough enough to thrive at boot camp, etc.).

[Freakzilla]

But isn't the fact that he isn't white fairly obvious?

Not really. He's "Johnny" on every page of the book but that last ... all of the characters speak a bland sort of American English until Johnny's Tagalog quote on the last page ... it's little stuff like that that probably had (has) the average Amercian reader just sort of assuming he's a WASP.

Actually, what happens is that you reach the end of the book and realize that Heinlein really hasn't described Rico much at all. Other characters, yes (Zim is big; Carl is smart, etc.), but you get to the end of Troopers without knowing a lot about Rico's physical qualities (other than he's generally tough enough to thrive at boot camp, etc.).

It doesn't matter anyway, I think that's the way it should be. Someone said something about content of character once...

So did Hollywood think the destruction of PR wouldn't mobilize humanity as much as BA?

[TheDukester]

The movie is best forgotten, in general. It manages to leave out every single good thing about the novel in favor of typical Hollywood stuff-goes-boom. If I could scrub my mind of every trace of it, I would.

[Freakzilla]

The movie is best forgotten, in general. It manages to leave out every single good thing about the novel in favor of typical Hollywood stuff-goes-boom. If I could scrub my mind of every trace of it, I would.

Hmmm... gonna have to move that one close to the top of the pile.

[Redstar]

So did Hollywood think the destruction of PR wouldn't mobilize humanity as much as BA?

Buenos Aires is still destroyed, since that's where Rico is from. He's just a dark-skinned Puerto Rican/Filipino in the book.