The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
- A Thing of Eternity
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Feels like hanging out with detectives.
- chanilover
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
The first colony outside Earth would be on the moon, hence the island of old Earth probably refers to the moon. I thought this had all been settled some time ago.SandChigger wrote:Add to the above the fact that people still know Ecaz:
Ecaz, or Alpha Centauri B IV, was no doubt the first planet settled outside the solar system. If the Atreides can still remember they're descended from Atreus after well over two hundred and fifty centuries, surely someone on Ecaz remembers that theirs is the oldest colony world and why.FH in CH:D wrote:She fell into a semi-reverie, still alert to the sounds behind her, but relishing the evidence of new victories that had been displayed to her this morning. She liked to roll the names of captive planets silently on her tongue.
Wallach, Kronin, Reenol, Ecaz, Bela Tegeuse, Gammu, Gamont, Niushe...
Earth is conspicuous by its absence.
"You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
- SandChigger
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
And where would the troublemaker like his bite?
Actually, our first off-world colony is passing about 350 km over your head every hour and a half or so.
Actually, our first off-world colony is passing about 350 km over your head every hour and a half or so.
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
- chanilover
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Oh yeah, the Space Station. Wasn't that another contender for the CET's get-together? Honestly, the lengths the Special Forces will go to in order to excuse another of Comb-Over's fuck ups. It's all starting to make sense, now.
"You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
- Apjak
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
There was a time I was genuinely hoping we would find that Arrakis was really Earth, but long forgotton and unrecognizable after its Dunification by sandworms, which humanity was somehow responsible for.
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
- SandChigger
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
That could have worked if FH hadn't been specific about details like what star Arrakis orbited, etc.
There was a period before Hunters came out IIRC when we were very afraid that the no-ship would do a time-slip and its worms would be the source of the worms on Arrakis (despite the problems that would cause with the more intelligent, post-Leto II worms becoming the original worms).
Instead we got seaworms and ultra-spice.
(sigh)
There was a period before Hunters came out IIRC when we were very afraid that the no-ship would do a time-slip and its worms would be the source of the worms on Arrakis (despite the problems that would cause with the more intelligent, post-Leto II worms becoming the original worms).
Instead we got seaworms and ultra-spice.
(sigh)
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
- Freakzilla
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Time travel seems tame by comparison now, doesn't it?SandChigger wrote:That could have worked if FH hadn't been specific about details like what star Arrakis orbited, etc.
There was a period before Hunters came out IIRC when we were very afraid that the no-ship would do a time-slip and its worms would be the source of the worms on Arrakis (despite the problems that would cause with the more intelligent, post-Leto II worms becoming the original worms).
Instead we got seaworms and ultra-spice.
(sigh)
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~Pink Snowman
- Rakis
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
You forgot to mention the resurrection of the worms on Rakis...I mean, it's important because it pretty much FUCKS UP Heretics of Dune for killing the worms in the first place...SandChigger wrote:That could have worked if FH hadn't been specific about details like what star Arrakis orbited, etc.
There was a period before Hunters came out IIRC when we were very afraid that the no-ship would do a time-slip and its worms would be the source of the worms on Arrakis (despite the problems that would cause with the more intelligent, post-Leto II worms becoming the original worms).
Instead we got seaworms and ultra-spice.
(sigh)
- Schu
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Nah, that particular time-travel loop would have made me more angry (were it not for the fact that it would be an awesome barb against KJA).Freakzilla wrote:Time travel seems tame by comparison now, doesn't it?SandChigger wrote:That could have worked if FH hadn't been specific about details like what star Arrakis orbited, etc.
There was a period before Hunters came out IIRC when we were very afraid that the no-ship would do a time-slip and its worms would be the source of the worms on Arrakis (despite the problems that would cause with the more intelligent, post-Leto II worms becoming the original worms).
Instead we got seaworms and ultra-spice.
(sigh)
-
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
OK, I have a bit more evidence that Earth no longer exists by the time of Chapterhouse at least... The Rabbi thinks of "Secret Israel", planets full of Jews. I really doubt we'd have filled other planets full of Jews to live on our own if the original Earth with its original homeland remained available.
Honestly, my guess is that Earth in Duniverse suffered a Firefly-style ecological disaster. It got "used up" and humanity just moved on. By that time they had so many other worlds that the extinction of the original ecosystem became a footnote.
Honestly, my guess is that Earth in Duniverse suffered a Firefly-style ecological disaster. It got "used up" and humanity just moved on. By that time they had so many other worlds that the extinction of the original ecosystem became a footnote.
Brian Herbert is a perfect example of why you shouldn't leave a universe-spanning empire to your next of kin.
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
If human life cannot go on on the surface of the planet, it may continue existing but people will forget about it.Baraka Bryan wrote:even if it would no longer be useful for habitation, it doesn't mean it didn't exist anymore.
Brian Herbert is a perfect example of why you shouldn't leave a universe-spanning empire to your next of kin.
- Freakzilla
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Ah, but they didn't.moreh_yeladim wrote:If human life cannot go on on the surface of the planet, it may continue existing but people will forget about it.Baraka Bryan wrote:even if it would no longer be useful for habitation, it doesn't mean it didn't exist anymore.
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
In a way they did. They forgot its reality, its spacial location, geography and ecology, and instead remembered only the myth of it.Freakzilla wrote:Ah, but they didn't.moreh_yeladim wrote:If human life cannot go on on the surface of the planet, it may continue existing but people will forget about it.Baraka Bryan wrote:even if it would no longer be useful for habitation, it doesn't mean it didn't exist anymore.
Brian Herbert is a perfect example of why you shouldn't leave a universe-spanning empire to your next of kin.
- Sev
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Apologies for dragging up an old thread, but possible developments caused me to read the Appendix in question and I found a later remark (which I can't see being mentioned anywhere here, hopefully) which backs up Chigs exceptional detective work about the C.E.T. meeting in Hawaii:
So it can't be a space station, or an asteroid, or the bloody moon - it's a tropical island. I take it the beaches of Hawaii are white sandy ones and not black lava ones???FH in Appendix II wrote:The troubadors, quite naturally, had a field day. A popular musical comedy of the period had one of the C.E.T. delegates sitting on a white sand beach beneath a palm tree singing...
Freakzilla - "Apparently we can only aspire to be the 13th biggest Dune fan since we are not family or in the HLP."
Byron - "Are you trying to irk me?"
Byron - "Are you trying to irk me?"
- SandChigger
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
"white sand beach Hawaii" turns up 5,680,000 Ghits.
I thought we had the troubadour & palm tree quote in there, somewhere; oh well.
Of course, all the Hack has to do IN HIS MIND is to declare the appendix an ERRONEOUS in-universe text. Because, after all, it IS an in-universe text.
The satellite/space station idea is one that won't die. As far as I know, it was first mentioned by TAZ over on Dune Novels (or maybe on Wikipedia?). That was back when he was flaunting his relationship with KJA, so it's completely possible that the idea comes originally from KJA.
They may have missed the fact that the C.E.T. would later meet on Earth when they destroyed the planet at the beginning of the Jihad ... a sloppy but more or less honest mistake. Or they may have been planning to fuck the series like this from the very beginning. What better revenge on a hated father than to turn around and twist every detail in his masterwork? What better coup for a hack writer than to "creatively reimagine" every detail in the books of a much greater writer?
I thought we had the troubadour & palm tree quote in there, somewhere; oh well.
Of course, all the Hack has to do IN HIS MIND is to declare the appendix an ERRONEOUS in-universe text. Because, after all, it IS an in-universe text.
The satellite/space station idea is one that won't die. As far as I know, it was first mentioned by TAZ over on Dune Novels (or maybe on Wikipedia?). That was back when he was flaunting his relationship with KJA, so it's completely possible that the idea comes originally from KJA.
They may have missed the fact that the C.E.T. would later meet on Earth when they destroyed the planet at the beginning of the Jihad ... a sloppy but more or less honest mistake. Or they may have been planning to fuck the series like this from the very beginning. What better revenge on a hated father than to turn around and twist every detail in his masterwork? What better coup for a hack writer than to "creatively reimagine" every detail in the books of a much greater writer?
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
- Hunchback Jack
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Sorry, dude, I *still* don't think it's malicious.
They're just not careful enough to avoid making these sort of mistakes, and the whole "read the next book and it will all make sense" rubbish is just fast talk to cover their own incompetence. In a way, I wonder whether they enjoy hearing about these little mistakes, and see it as a creative *challenge* for them to "fix" them in later books.
HBJ
They're just not careful enough to avoid making these sort of mistakes, and the whole "read the next book and it will all make sense" rubbish is just fast talk to cover their own incompetence. In a way, I wonder whether they enjoy hearing about these little mistakes, and see it as a creative *challenge* for them to "fix" them in later books.
HBJ
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I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
That's my thought as well.
- Superdog
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
All of human beings come from where, Ethiopia?, and yet no one ever feels the need to travel there for some purpose or another. Could be the same way for Earth.
The comment about it no longer existing is a bit troubling, though. No longer exist would indicate it was destroyed or sucked into a black hole or something. DE mentions it gets hit by a meteorite that destroys everything at some point after the CET I think, which makes as much sense as anything else. Why the coordinates would be lost I'm not sure.
The comment about it no longer existing is a bit troubling, though. No longer exist would indicate it was destroyed or sucked into a black hole or something. DE mentions it gets hit by a meteorite that destroys everything at some point after the CET I think, which makes as much sense as anything else. Why the coordinates would be lost I'm not sure.
- merkin muffley
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Yeah, I don't think either of them is creatively ambitious enough to try to, or know how to subvert Frank Herbert's creation. I see them as greedy, thoughtless, and incompetent. Hacks, if you will.Hunchback Jack wrote: They're just not careful enough to avoid making these sort of mistakes, and the whole "read the next book and it will all make sense" rubbish is just fast talk to cover their own incompetence.
- SandChigger
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Obviously they're not talented enough to have carried it off convincingly, but I guarantee that KJA views the whole "Dune originals are in-universe texts" line of bullshit as a creative reimagining of the series.
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
- merkin muffley
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
Yeah, come to think of it, the Irulan as writer of Dune thing is extremely heavy-handed. Hawaii seems like a mistake to me, but they have definitely made a lot of huge changes very deliberately, and they probably think they are taking Dune in more interesting directions.SandChigger wrote:Obviously they're not talented enough to have carried it off convincingly, but I guarantee that KJA views the whole "Dune originals are in-universe texts" line of bullshit as a creative reimagining of the series.
KJA also said somewhere that Frank Herbert has huge events happen off-stage, whereas he and Brian like to show them. He's trying to say that he's better at "show, don't tell" than Frank Herbert. He's mainly showing us, by the way he uses it, that he doesn't even understand what "show, don't tell" is. But there's also an enormous amount of arrogance, and possibly contempt, towards Frank Herbert in statements like that.
- SandRider
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
I've never been sure how serious the SandChigger is with the "Brian-hates-Frank-so-much-he's-fucking-up-Dune"
thing ... it's a fun idea and I've certainly propagated it myself because it sets Merritt off ... but I don't think it's
true ... I think Brian and Spanky really, honestly think they are doing a Good Thing for Frank and Dune ...
but they are both just such talentless, unimaginative assholes, they can't see the obvious truth ... and Spanky's
dug in his heels, he's right, we're wrong, so that dog won't never let go of the bone .. he's going to go out of
his way to slap together some plot-hole-filled idea about the C.E.T. and the way he SunCrushed the Earth
because Brian was drunk when he did the working timeline ... and I don't think this is to prove Frank was wrong,
or even that the OH is wrong ... it will be to prove that he is right, and a masterful story-teller to boot,
(like Homer, eh?) and can pull all these elements together into a coherent story ...
of course, he can't, and we'll point that out, and he'll ignore us and his fans will jackasses of themselves
all over the web .... good times ...
and where's onasander with his theories ?
yes, we are discussing Spanky, because Spanky is talking about the next book and already tossing out
ideas that are in conflict with Frank's Dune ... of course we've got some comments ...
thing ... it's a fun idea and I've certainly propagated it myself because it sets Merritt off ... but I don't think it's
true ... I think Brian and Spanky really, honestly think they are doing a Good Thing for Frank and Dune ...
but they are both just such talentless, unimaginative assholes, they can't see the obvious truth ... and Spanky's
dug in his heels, he's right, we're wrong, so that dog won't never let go of the bone .. he's going to go out of
his way to slap together some plot-hole-filled idea about the C.E.T. and the way he SunCrushed the Earth
because Brian was drunk when he did the working timeline ... and I don't think this is to prove Frank was wrong,
or even that the OH is wrong ... it will be to prove that he is right, and a masterful story-teller to boot,
(like Homer, eh?) and can pull all these elements together into a coherent story ...
of course, he can't, and we'll point that out, and he'll ignore us and his fans will jackasses of themselves
all over the web .... good times ...
and where's onasander with his theories ?
yes, we are discussing Spanky, because Spanky is talking about the next book and already tossing out
ideas that are in conflict with Frank's Dune ... of course we've got some comments ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
- SandChigger
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
I just hate seriously stupid people. And the thought that seriously stupid people are in control of something like Dune is outrageous.
I'd almost rather believe that Brian Herbert is an evil genius, manipulating a no-talent ego-maniac hack like a brainless puppet for his own nefarious purposes.
I'd almost rather believe that Brian Herbert is an evil genius, manipulating a no-talent ego-maniac hack like a brainless puppet for his own nefarious purposes.
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
- SandRider
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Re: The C.E.T. meets in Hawai'i. Deal with it.
with the advent of "TheKJA" on Twitter, we've had daily examples of just how really dumb Spanky is ...
and not just about "science fiction" writing or publishing or teh innerwebz, but just generally clueless about
adult American life ....
I'd bet a Brian Herbert twit would reveal much the same ...
and Byron Merritt is a walking sack of dumbass ...
and not just about "science fiction" writing or publishing or teh innerwebz, but just generally clueless about
adult American life ....
I'd bet a Brian Herbert twit would reveal much the same ...
and Byron Merritt is a walking sack of dumbass ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people. ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008