insidiom wrote:
3=====D
She also played the "D-Girl" in that Sopranos episode. It'd be pretty slick to cast her as Jessica, the secret Harkonnen, as she's a redhead. (EDIT: says Captain Obvious)
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insidiom wrote:
3=====D
Well, *theoretically* a KH could evolve naturally, but it would take much, much longer than a KH born from the BG breeding program.DragEgusku wrote:I do not understand a thing about the Kwisatz Haderach. If you could create a KH tleilaxu as Scytale said, would prevent nature to do the same?
Of course, what role such a KH would play I have no idea.Frank Herbert, in Dune Messiah wrote:"We've dabbled in various pure essences," Scytale said. "Pure good and pure evil. A pure villain who delights only in creating pain and terror can be quite educational."
"The old Baron Harkonnen, our Emperor's grandfather, was he a Tleilaxu creation?" Irulan asked.
"Not one of ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
Tleszer wrote:That could have been an interesting plot point in the real Dune 7, especially since the Golden Path was set up in part to counter another KH-like being. And it wouldn't necessarily be far fetched considering Scytale's talk of KHs to the fellow co-conspirators:
Of course, what role such a KH would play I have no idea.Frank Herbert, in Dune Messiah wrote:"We've dabbled in various pure essences," Scytale said. "Pure good and pure evil. A pure villain who delights only in creating pain and terror can be quite educational."
"The old Baron Harkonnen, our Emperor's grandfather, was he a Tleilaxu creation?" Irulan asked.
"Not one of ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
so at least from my pov you don't need to worry about thatmm wrote:The more I think about the idea that the Baron was created by humans, but not even the Tleilaxu
lotek wrote:I don't think the Baron was ever implied to be a Tleilaxu creation, but in Dune he was if not the ultimate super being at least the epitome of evil.
So when someone mentions "pure evil" in conversation, it would only be natural his name would come up, especially from someone such as Irulan who would know more about the Baron's tastes than the average Duniverse punter.
Frank Herbert, in Dune Messiah wrote wrote::
"We've dabbled in various pure essences," Scytale said. "Pure good and pure evil. A pure villain who delights only in creating pain and terror can be quite educational."
"The old Baron Harkonnen, our Emperor's grandfather, was he a Tleilaxu creation?" Irulan asked.
"Not one of ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
The Baron IS a product of the breeding program as far as I see it. Only two ( three according to the BG ) generations away from the KH he is the result of 87(?) generations of planned breeding. I feel that Scytale is accusing the BG of "creating" the Baron; especially considering who he is talking to.merkin muffley wrote:lotek wrote:I don't think the Baron was ever implied to be a Tleilaxu creation, but in Dune he was if not the ultimate super being at least the epitome of evil.
So when someone mentions "pure evil" in conversation, it would only be natural his name would come up, especially from someone such as Irulan who would know more about the Baron's tastes than the average Duniverse punter.Frank Herbert, in Dune Messiah wrote wrote::
"We've dabbled in various pure essences," Scytale said. "Pure good and pure evil. A pure villain who delights only in creating pain and terror can be quite educational."
"The old Baron Harkonnen, our Emperor's grandfather, was he a Tleilaxu creation?" Irulan asked.
"Not one of ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
To me, they're talking about Tleilaxu creations. Scytale says that the Baron was "Not one of ours." Maybe I'm getting thrown off by that line, because to me it implies that the Baron was created by someone else.
I want to understand this if I've misread it:
Is Irulan being facetious when she asks that question?
If Scytale means that the Baron isn't a creation of the Tleilaxu, why does he say "Not one of ours." In that context, the line "Not one of ours" suggests that the Baron was the creation of someone else. He doesn't mean that the Baron is a product of the breeding program(?)
My thoughts, too, although it's been a while since I've read the passage carefully.Serkanner wrote:I feel that Scytale is accusing the BG of "creating" the Baron; especially considering who he is talking to.
I definitely agree that the Baron is a product of the BG breeding program. I'm unclear about whether or not Scytale is referring to the breeding program in that conversation. It makes sense, if that's what Scytale means, but I would have expected FH to have Mohiam react, or to give us more to make it clear that Scytale is referring to the breeding program.Serkanner wrote: The Baron IS a product of the breeding program as far as I see it. Only two ( three according to the BG ) generations away from the KH he is the result of 87(?) generations of planned breeding. I feel that Scytale is accusing the BG of "creating" the Baron; especially considering who he is talking to.
Homework for tomorrow: re-read the passage. It is way to long ago since I have read it. Interesting topic though.merkin muffley wrote:I definitely agree that the Baron is a product of the BG breeding program. I'm unclear about whether or not Scytale is referring to the breeding program in that conversation. It makes sense, if that's what Scytale means, but I would have expected FH to have Mohiam react, or to give us more to make it clear that Scytale is referring to the breeding program.Serkanner wrote: The Baron IS a product of the breeding program as far as I see it. Only two ( three according to the BG ) generations away from the KH he is the result of 87(?) generations of planned breeding. I feel that Scytale is accusing the BG of "creating" the Baron; especially considering who he is talking to.
A direct jab to the BG chin and a good one!Not one of ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them.
I've bolded the section I left out. And, of course, it's the bold section that I actually wanted to include since we were on the topic of a naturally-occurring KH."Not one of ours," Scytale said. "But then nature often produces creations as deadly as ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
yes definitely; got it all wrong didn't I?Tleszer wrote:Sorry everyone. In my haste to insert that quote I accidentally left out a line that Scytale says. I knew I should have used the PDFs rather than the novel for this.
I've bolded the section I left out. And, of course, it's the bold section that I actually wanted to include since we were on the topic of a naturally-occurring KH."Not one of ours," Scytale said. "But then nature often produces creations as deadly as ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
Perhaps there's a jab at Mohiam and the BG, but I don't think that's necessarily what Scytale was implying, since there's no reaction from her.
should have taken that sound adviceSerkanner wrote: Homework for tomorrow: re-read the passage. It is way to long ago since I have read it. Interesting topic though.
Ahhhhhh...Tleszer wrote:"Not one of ours," Scytale said. "But then nature often produces creations as deadly as ours. We merely produce them under conditions where we can study them."
...I was talking out of my buttocks a little bit.merkin muffley wrote:I've always been intrigued by that part of Dune Messiah.
You know there are PDFs available, right?merkin muffley wrote:I still can't find my copy of Dune Messiah, and at this point I'm about to just buy another one. I keep getting myself into trouble.
Internets? What is this internet you speak of?Freakzilla wrote:You know there are PDFs available, right?merkin muffley wrote:I still can't find my copy of Dune Messiah, and at this point I'm about to just buy another one. I keep getting myself into trouble.
Hey, if you don't want them I won't push them on you.merkin muffley wrote:Internets? What is this internet you speak of?Freakzilla wrote:You know there are PDFs available, right?merkin muffley wrote:I still can't find my copy of Dune Messiah, and at this point I'm about to just buy another one. I keep getting myself into trouble.
Downloading it now.Freakzilla wrote: Hey, if you don't want them I won't push them on you.
Print is dead.
~Egon Spengler
Hmm, this seems correct. That which the Bene Gesserit hoped to achieve by selective breeding could also occur by chance... but the probability of this happening would be close to zero I suppose.DragEgusku wrote:So the nature may produce a Kwisatz Haderach
Exactly, given the extremeness of the KH's abilities, I think it would be more likely to evolve laser shooting sharkheads for hands.MrFlibble wrote:Hmm, this seems correct. That which the Bene Gesserit hoped to achieve by selective breeding could also occur by chance... but the probability of this happening would be close to zero I suppose.DragEgusku wrote:So the nature may produce a Kwisatz Haderach