Transplanting a worm.
Posted: 23 Feb 2008 19:52
This is a thread I statred over at 'Keen, but I thought I'd bring it over here as well.
I would like to challenge the assumption that the worms were only able to be transplanted to another world because of Leto and his pearls of awareness. I wanted to start a new thread because this doesn’t really pertain to the sandtrouts origins.
I will start with a quote. Here where Teg speaks to Lucilla at the end of HoD:
The Honored Matres have been trying to locate and capture a worm without success. I really don't understand how they could be so blind in their concept of how you transplant one of them."
"Transplant?" Lucilla was floundered. Teg had seldom seen a Reverened Mother at such a loss. She was trying to assemble the things he had said. a mentat could come to a qualified conviction without sufficient data.
And later, Odrade:
Lastly, she thought about the worm in the no-ships hold- a worm nearing the moment of its metamorphosis. a small earth-dammed basin filled with melange awaited that worm. When the moment came, it would be lured out by Sheeana into the bath of melange and water. The resulting sandtrout could then begin their long transformation.
You were right, father. It was so simple when you looked at it clearly.
No need to seek a desert planet for the worms. The sandtrout would create their own habitat for Shai-hulud. It was not pleasant to think of Chapter house Planet transformed into vast areas of wasteland but it had to be done.
Why would the Mother Superior herself be shocked at the relative ease of transplant after Teg discovered the right way to do it? You don't think that the BG tried to transplant the worms after Leto? Sure they did. They failed. If Leto made the worms able to be transplanted....why weren't they.....no argument is satisfactory thus far.
Even with the Pearls of Awareness the HM's still couldn't transplant the worms or sandtrout. And no one else did for thousands of years after Leto either. Teg obviously thought the HM could do it if they used the right technique so I don't think Sheeana was the key either.
There is no doubt that the worms were different after Leto. But If Leto is right about the worms being introduced......then it must come down to technique for they already exist or existed somewhere else, and perhaps exist throughout the universe.
It is true that people have been trying to transplant the worms and sandtrout to other planets for thousands of years but, in the end, it came down to HOW you do it.
The worm cycle never succeeded because everyone kept taking the sandtrout to desert planets. They overlooked the fact that the sandtrout need water to survive! It plays a key role in the cycle.
On a planet wide cycle(or any cycle), there would be no reproduction without water. The sandtrout could take much of Chapterhouse's ocean under the sand with only being in control of a small amount of surface area. They will eventually take it all and any other water to be had. Just like they did on Dune. Even Leto with his pearls of awareness(if you even believe that matters) couldn’t make the sandtrout and worms survive on a desert planet that was devoid of water before the worms came. There would be no cycle...Leto or no Leto.
We know of only one attempt first hand. The attempt to transplant to Salusa Secundus. We know that SS was as much a wasteland as Dune if not more. Water would be scarce there as well. We know water is needed to "dissolve" a worm into sandtrout. Then the santrout utilized the water(this is why Leto had to be killed over or near water). But no one would have done that because they knew water was poison to the worm...or so they thought. No doubt sandtrout were also taken off of dune as well. But everyone would have put them right in the middle of a desert! They would have died before they found the water they needed. It was right in front of everyone’s faces but they couldn't see it....until Teg that is. Take the worms to a water rich world?! Are you insane?!
Exactly!
SS was considered a good candidate for transplant. It mirrored Dune in many ways. But the point is that SS was a wasteland before the worm was introduced. Dune was a water rich world and far from being a wasteland before the worms came. Besides, all they did on SS was to stick the worm on the surface and wait for something to happen. In this case the worm would perish along with any sandtrout that it was composed of. The surface wasn't ready for a worm anyway as there were no sandtrout to prepare it. IF they had submerged it in water and IF there was enough water on the planet anyway(I suspect there wasn't for a full blown cycle to begin) then it might have succeeded. I also don't think that it is necessary to begin a transplant with a worm. Sandtrout would work just fine.....you just can't drop them on a desert planet and expect them to survive. And for thousands of years before Leto and thousands after, that is what happened.
We know water will break apart a worm because of Leto. We also know that spice essence(or alot of spice) will break apart a worm do to Leto's interview with the BG witches in GoD. We know sandplankton feed on spice. The worms feed on sandplankton. In HoD...Odrade looks upon the worm in the no-ships hold on its bed of Rakian sand. Which must have contained sandplankton....perhaps this is what the melange in the water was for. And it is also vital because ALL of the cycle is included.
And one thing to note on the origins issue. Humanity kept atomics as a weapon against an alien threat if one was ever found that was hostile. It says it in the books. While I agree that humans were the subject of Dune, I don't agree that Frank completely wanted the alien factor left out. His universe is infinite.
Actually, I think it's more romantic to think that aliens were the reason that the worms are on Dune. All they would have to do is send a terraforming drone or probe through foldspace(which they would have no doubt) to any given area, have the probe search for a planet and drop the worms....easy. And with foldspace, the probe could come from across the universe....not just the known universe. Once the worms had done their job...the aliens could move in. perhaps the probe that created Dune was a stray....who knows. Evolution? I don't know about that. A small probe would be hard to ever find, and we could search for millions of years for this other race without ever finding evidence of them or crossing their path. Or it may be a gift to any race that came across it. Perhaps the Aliens failed at their attempts at prescience and were giving another race the opportunity. Or the worms could have come from humanity, but from the future! We don’t know how foldspace really works. Perhaps someone figured out how to send them back in time with an altered foldspace? Just some random thoughts.
As for terraforming, I'm not sure about that either. But it shouldn't be ruled out. If humanity could leave earth knowing that there were planets out there ready to be colonized right away(because we sent drones in the past)...wouldn't that be to our advantage? Even an advanced race with foldspace could utilize this technique. Then they just have to take their sweet time and go follow the drones. No hurry...millions were sent.
I would like to challenge the assumption that the worms were only able to be transplanted to another world because of Leto and his pearls of awareness. I wanted to start a new thread because this doesn’t really pertain to the sandtrouts origins.
I will start with a quote. Here where Teg speaks to Lucilla at the end of HoD:
The Honored Matres have been trying to locate and capture a worm without success. I really don't understand how they could be so blind in their concept of how you transplant one of them."
"Transplant?" Lucilla was floundered. Teg had seldom seen a Reverened Mother at such a loss. She was trying to assemble the things he had said. a mentat could come to a qualified conviction without sufficient data.
And later, Odrade:
Lastly, she thought about the worm in the no-ships hold- a worm nearing the moment of its metamorphosis. a small earth-dammed basin filled with melange awaited that worm. When the moment came, it would be lured out by Sheeana into the bath of melange and water. The resulting sandtrout could then begin their long transformation.
You were right, father. It was so simple when you looked at it clearly.
No need to seek a desert planet for the worms. The sandtrout would create their own habitat for Shai-hulud. It was not pleasant to think of Chapter house Planet transformed into vast areas of wasteland but it had to be done.
Why would the Mother Superior herself be shocked at the relative ease of transplant after Teg discovered the right way to do it? You don't think that the BG tried to transplant the worms after Leto? Sure they did. They failed. If Leto made the worms able to be transplanted....why weren't they.....no argument is satisfactory thus far.
Even with the Pearls of Awareness the HM's still couldn't transplant the worms or sandtrout. And no one else did for thousands of years after Leto either. Teg obviously thought the HM could do it if they used the right technique so I don't think Sheeana was the key either.
There is no doubt that the worms were different after Leto. But If Leto is right about the worms being introduced......then it must come down to technique for they already exist or existed somewhere else, and perhaps exist throughout the universe.
It is true that people have been trying to transplant the worms and sandtrout to other planets for thousands of years but, in the end, it came down to HOW you do it.
The worm cycle never succeeded because everyone kept taking the sandtrout to desert planets. They overlooked the fact that the sandtrout need water to survive! It plays a key role in the cycle.
On a planet wide cycle(or any cycle), there would be no reproduction without water. The sandtrout could take much of Chapterhouse's ocean under the sand with only being in control of a small amount of surface area. They will eventually take it all and any other water to be had. Just like they did on Dune. Even Leto with his pearls of awareness(if you even believe that matters) couldn’t make the sandtrout and worms survive on a desert planet that was devoid of water before the worms came. There would be no cycle...Leto or no Leto.
We know of only one attempt first hand. The attempt to transplant to Salusa Secundus. We know that SS was as much a wasteland as Dune if not more. Water would be scarce there as well. We know water is needed to "dissolve" a worm into sandtrout. Then the santrout utilized the water(this is why Leto had to be killed over or near water). But no one would have done that because they knew water was poison to the worm...or so they thought. No doubt sandtrout were also taken off of dune as well. But everyone would have put them right in the middle of a desert! They would have died before they found the water they needed. It was right in front of everyone’s faces but they couldn't see it....until Teg that is. Take the worms to a water rich world?! Are you insane?!
Exactly!
SS was considered a good candidate for transplant. It mirrored Dune in many ways. But the point is that SS was a wasteland before the worm was introduced. Dune was a water rich world and far from being a wasteland before the worms came. Besides, all they did on SS was to stick the worm on the surface and wait for something to happen. In this case the worm would perish along with any sandtrout that it was composed of. The surface wasn't ready for a worm anyway as there were no sandtrout to prepare it. IF they had submerged it in water and IF there was enough water on the planet anyway(I suspect there wasn't for a full blown cycle to begin) then it might have succeeded. I also don't think that it is necessary to begin a transplant with a worm. Sandtrout would work just fine.....you just can't drop them on a desert planet and expect them to survive. And for thousands of years before Leto and thousands after, that is what happened.
We know water will break apart a worm because of Leto. We also know that spice essence(or alot of spice) will break apart a worm do to Leto's interview with the BG witches in GoD. We know sandplankton feed on spice. The worms feed on sandplankton. In HoD...Odrade looks upon the worm in the no-ships hold on its bed of Rakian sand. Which must have contained sandplankton....perhaps this is what the melange in the water was for. And it is also vital because ALL of the cycle is included.
And one thing to note on the origins issue. Humanity kept atomics as a weapon against an alien threat if one was ever found that was hostile. It says it in the books. While I agree that humans were the subject of Dune, I don't agree that Frank completely wanted the alien factor left out. His universe is infinite.
Actually, I think it's more romantic to think that aliens were the reason that the worms are on Dune. All they would have to do is send a terraforming drone or probe through foldspace(which they would have no doubt) to any given area, have the probe search for a planet and drop the worms....easy. And with foldspace, the probe could come from across the universe....not just the known universe. Once the worms had done their job...the aliens could move in. perhaps the probe that created Dune was a stray....who knows. Evolution? I don't know about that. A small probe would be hard to ever find, and we could search for millions of years for this other race without ever finding evidence of them or crossing their path. Or it may be a gift to any race that came across it. Perhaps the Aliens failed at their attempts at prescience and were giving another race the opportunity. Or the worms could have come from humanity, but from the future! We don’t know how foldspace really works. Perhaps someone figured out how to send them back in time with an altered foldspace? Just some random thoughts.
As for terraforming, I'm not sure about that either. But it shouldn't be ruled out. If humanity could leave earth knowing that there were planets out there ready to be colonized right away(because we sent drones in the past)...wouldn't that be to our advantage? Even an advanced race with foldspace could utilize this technique. Then they just have to take their sweet time and go follow the drones. No hurry...millions were sent.