Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Could anyone who has a physical copy of this CD do me a favor and look through the liner notes and cover text for any mention of The Dune Encyclopedia or the names Alan Kaye or John Quijada?

Shukran/Thanks!

Does this have to do with the discrepencies between the lyrics and the actual meanings behind them as opposed the the fake ones inserted by the composer?
Unfortunately I don't have a hard copy of the soundtrack or the case, but ironically I'm listening to it right now.

I've got it - but it's fucking awkward to get to one-handed. Will have a go on thurs (stitches out) if no-one beats me to it...

reverendmotherQ. wrote:Does this have to do with the discrepencies between the lyrics and the actual meanings behind them as opposed the the fake ones inserted by the composer?
Unfortunately I don't have a hard copy of the soundtrack or the case, but ironically I'm listening to it right now.

Yes, but it has more to do with the composer's wholesale plagiarism of the lyrics (from The Dune Encyclopedia) and his claim that he went through FH's Dune books and translated the lyrics in Fremen himself. The bogus English "translation" he provided is the least of his sins.

From Tyler's website (presumably this text is the same as the CD liner notes), written by Greg Yaitanes, CoD director:

Brian actually searched through Herbert's books and deciphered enough of the fictional Fremen language to write this powerful song.

Or from the product blurb on the soundtrack CD's page on Amazon (written by Jerry McCulley):

It's an epic score that belies its cable roots, yet one that remains masterfully restrained and informed by a dedication of purpose that's even inspired the composer to translate the lyric of his gorgeous, ethereal vocal piece, "Inama Nushuf" into the language of novelist Herbert's native Fremen people.

This came up here back in March (viewtopic.php?p=40788#p40788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), but I didn't really start to get pissed off about it until after KJA tried to pass off some gibberish as "the language of the dessert" in Winds. The lack of respect shown for learning, authenticity, (foreign) language & culture, and (as usual) FH's works really is inexcusable.

Depending on how you look at it, this could be just another example of The Dune Encyclopedia being pillaged for profit. After all, no one has seen any proof that the similarities between TDE content and McDune content stem from material in FH's notes and not theft of the ideas.

(DuneFish: I ordered a copy of the CD for myself, so no need to risk injury! Should arrive tomorrow or Thursday! )

DuneFishUK wrote:I've got it - but it's fucking awkward to get to one-handed. Will have a go on thurs (stitches out) if no-one beats me to it...

Get a lil' boo-boo didja? Whappen?

DuneFishUK wrote:I've got it - but it's fucking awkward to get to one-handed.

What are you doing with the other hand?

DuneFishUK wrote:if no-one beats me to it...

Oh.

Oh Holy Maker, must EVERY thread end up in the gutter?!

WIN. ^

Ah I see. I remember reading an entry on your blog about that mess with the lyric translation. And it's awful I agree how everythings being so distorted and drawn out so that it can be twisted for purposes not directly tied to the novel or grounded in the original texts.
If only Truthsayers were real, this problem could be solved - At the end of Murbella's fist.

Yeah ... we need to show up with a Truthsayer at the next book signing where both hacks are present.

"Anderson! Has Herbert written anything besides his name on the checks and inside these books he signs?"

"Yes! Brian and I share the work equally!"

"HE LIES!!! ARE there any notes?"

"Of ... of course there are!"

"HE LIES AGAIN!!!"

It would be glorious.

Tleszer wrote:

DuneFishUK wrote:if no-one beats me to it...

Oh.

Bloody hell...



Something about pix...

^^^ Are you auditioning for How to get ahead in Advertising?

Looks like a crafting knife slash. oops.

DuneFishUK wrote:

Tleszer wrote:

DuneFishUK wrote:if no-one beats me to it...

Oh.

Bloody hell...



Something about pix...

If you use the other hand it feels like a first date.

I seriously want a petition for them to make available to us the original "notes" so we can see for ourselves whether or not they are just exploiting ideas that Frank thought of using possibly when he jot them down but then discarded them as viable.
And i would want a manuscript comparison to determine whether or not it is the REAL Frank's hand writing, not the hacks trying to forge some evidence.

According to the Norman Spinrad interview done by SandRider:

SR: Do you believe Frank had intentions of a "Dune7" ? Along the same lines, what do think of the claim of Brian Herbert to have found floppy disks containing the "complete" Dune7 outline in a safety deposit box years after Frank's death ? If there were notes, do you believe Brian and Kevin J. Anderson used them faithfully in their new "Dune" books ?

NS: Maybe. Frank kept going as long as the big money kept rolling in. Knowing Frank's political philosophy, I once asked him how he could keep writing this royalist stuff. He told me he planned to end the series with a novel that would transition to a fictional universe of democratic rule. Never wrote it, of course. And Brian and Kevin certainly didn't from any 7 notes.

A direct link to it:viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1112&start=0

OH hell no they didn't! I wish I could sue them. For failing at life.

DuneFishUK wrote:
Something about pix...

wow. that's a nice little cut there, dude.
might wanna put a bandaid on that ...

if you posted how that happened, I missed it .... knife slip ?

seriously, tho, that looks like you could have lost some thumb function .... that's the left hand ?
might have some trouble holding a guitar neck ....

ewww.

thanks for sharing .... makes me want to find the MRIs of my exploded disc ....

SandRider wrote:

DuneFishUK wrote:
Something about pix...

wow. that's a nice little cut there, dude.
might wanna put a bandaid on that ...

if you posted how that happened, I missed it .... knife slip ?

seriously, tho, that looks like you could have lost some thumb function .... that's the left hand ?
might have some trouble holding a guitar neck ....

ewww.

Spot on - scalpel slip at work. Brand new blade

Quite lucky as movement is fine.... less lucky that I lost some sensation on the back of my thumb - doc managed to stitch the nerve back together though - so fingers crossed it'll be ok in time.

thanks for sharing .... makes me want to find the MRIs of my exploded disc ....

That sounds a bit nasty... We should start a thread for this shit.

Oh, let's not, how about?

I mean, that sort of urge toward morbid voyeurism (and the lack of moral fortitude to resist it?) is what led to some of the worst bits (and pieces) of McDune.

meh.

I've already seen the pix of your hair-plugs-gone-wrong episode ....

HEY!

Only the ones on my butt went wrong.

I tried to tell you
you couldn't use nose hair
for the hair-plug procedure,
but would you listen ??

I know, I know. I should have just fucked a sheep and then sacrificed it to Beltane, like you advised me.

Hineysight is 20/20. (Nothing blocking the view.)

Update re the topic:

Slight emendation: What Kaye & Quijada actually did was translate into "Fremen" the underlined part of this epigraph from Dune (D 47e):

And Muad'Dib stood before them, and he said: "Though we deem the captive dead, yet does she live. For her seed is my seed and her voice is my voice. And she sees unto the farthest reaches of possibility. Yea, unto the vale of the unknowable does she see because of me."
—from "Arrakis Awakening" by the Princess Irulan

NOW the English "translation" lyrics make a certain sort of sense: Had Tyler used the original passage from Dune, he probably would have run afoul of the Herbert Parasites and their pack of hyenas. That still doesn't excuse Tyler's unattributed use (plagiarism) of the Fremen translation.

My copy of the CoD soundtrack arrived yesterday. There is no mention of The Dune Encyclopedia or Kaye or Quijada anywhere on the cover or in the liner notes, but the liner notes do include the quote from director Greg Yaitanes on Tyler's website. If Yaitanes' statement ("Brian actually searched through Herbert's books and deciphered enough of the fictional Fremen language to write this powerful song.") was a misunderstanding on his part, it seems Tyler could have corrected it on his website.

SandChigger wrote:If Yaitanes' statement ("Brian actually searched through Herbert's books and deciphered enough of the fictional Fremen language to write this powerful song.") was a misunderstanding on his part, it seems Tyler could have corrected it on his website.

I guess he could just conveniently "overlook" that statement and thus relieve himself from any need to correct it.

BTW, could it be that Tyler was given the text and its "translation" by someone else, and just wrote the music?

reverendmotherQ. wrote:Ah I see. I remember reading an entry on your blog about that mess with the lyric translation.

I'd be very interested in reading this entry, if anyone has a link I'd appreciate it.

Or if anyone could simply explain to me what the lyrics used for the song actually mean when translated into English!