Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

From the descriptions of these items, it seems to me that sand-compaction tools would "pound" the sand (even slightly) in order to compact it and create a tunnel through which to emerge from the sand after being caught in a storm. Would not this "pounding" call a worm?

Perhaps I am mistaken about the method of compaction which the tool uses. I welcome all viewpoints.

Wasn't there something about an electrostatic charge being involved as well?

(I'll have to go check the text. )

Yes, I've always understood the mechanism to be a static charge on the sand.

Waits patiently for the quote.

Patience... a virtue for all, source of revenue for the physician.

Or something like that.

FH in Dune wrote: Sand rasped as he opened the sphincter and a burred fizzle of grains ran into the tent before he could immobilize it with a static compaction tool. A hole grew in the sandwall as the tool realigned the grains. He slipped out and her ears followed his progress to the surface.
...
She swallowed in a dry throat, slipped into the hole, felt static-packed sand rasp under her hands. Paul reached down, took her arm. She stood beside him on a smooth patch of starlit desert, stared around. Sand almost brimmed their basin, leaving only a dim lip of surrounding rock. She probed the farther darkness with her trained senses.

FH in Children of Dune wrote: Grasping the static compaction tool in his left hand, he burrowed into a dune's slipface, knowing the worm was too tired to turn back and swallow him in its great white-orange mouth. As he burrowed with his left hand, his right hand worked the stilltent from his Fremkit and he readied it for inflation. It was all done in less than a minute: he had the tent into a hard-walled sand pocket on the lee face of a dune. He inflated the tent and crawled into it. Before sealing the sphincter, he reached out with the compaction tool, reversed its action. The slipface came sliding down over the tent. Only a few sand grains entered as he sealed the opening.

Now he had to work even more quickly. No sandsnorkel would reach up there to keep him supplied with breathing air. This was a great storm, the kind few survived. It would cover this place with tons of sand. Only the tender bubble of the stilltent with its compacted outer shell would protect him.

I think, artistagent116, that these two quotes kinda establish that there was some electrostatic charge used to make the grains of sand stick together, rather than some actual pressure compaction. As you rightly point out, the latter would most definitely draw the attention of a worm. (Even Leto's digging in conjunction with the static tool in the Children passage evidently would have been loud enough to cause a nearby worm to come after him; the only thing that saved him was that he'd ridden it until it was too pooped to pot. )

To SandChigger; thank you for the quote of relevant text. That passage does use the term "static" compaction, while in the beginning of the next chapter "sand"-compaction is used (when Leto II is digging out after the storm). I believe I glossed over the term "static" and replaced it in my mind with "sand" for each reference to that tool. Sometimes I don't mentally articulate each word because the story is familiar - I should watch that.

I agree that using static would make a magnetic field of sorts to cause sand particles to bind together tightly and form a wall. Did you see the light bulb turn on over my head?

Thanks again.

No probs. One is glad to be of service.

I thought of it as a very sensitive personal shield- if you are quick and quiet enough about it, you should blend in as little more than a anomaly during a sand storm.... worm has to be a bit overwhelmed during it to investigate every little rumble.

Onasander wrote:I thought of it as a very sensitive personal shield- if you are quick and quiet enough about it, you should blend in as little more than a anomaly during a sand storm.... worm has to be a bit overwhelmed during it to investigate every little rumble.

I like to think of it like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

Your an idiot.

Onasander wrote:I thought of it as a very sensitive personal shield

You young pup! You young pup! I, personally, thought of it as something that held sand in place.

But yeah, it could be a very sensitive personal shield except that shield technology drives worms into a killing frenzy, but if you're quick and quiet about it - right on.

Nekhrun wrote:

Onasander wrote:I like to think of it like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

My new sig line!

Nekhrun wrote:

Onasander wrote:I thought of it as a very sensitive personal shield- if you are quick and quiet enough about it, you should blend in as little more than a anomaly during a sand storm.... worm has to be a bit overwhelmed during it to investigate every little rumble.

I like to think of it like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

Your an idiot.

I like to picture it in a tuxedo T-shirt cos it says like, I wanna be formal but I’m here to party too, cos I like to party, so I like my sand compaction tool to party.

I like to think of it as a muscular trapeze artist.

like to think of it like a dirty old bum. He's comin' up to me, and I'm 'bout to sock him one, cause, you know, he's a dirty old bum, but then I say, "Wait a minute, there's something... I don't know, special about this guy."

I like to think of it like a shapeshifter, or changeling, like that guy--You ever see that TV show Manimal?

I like to think of it as an olympic swimmer.

I like to think of it as a mischievous badger.

artistagent116 wrote:To SandChigger; thank you for the quote of relevant text. That passage does use the term "static" compaction, while in the beginning of the next chapter "sand"-compaction is used (when Leto II is digging out after the storm). I believe I glossed over the term "static" and replaced it in my mind with "sand" for each reference to that tool. Sometimes I don't mentally articulate each word because the story is familiar - I should watch that.

I agree that using static would make a magnetic field of sorts to cause sand particles to bind together tightly and form a wall. Did you see the light bulb turn on over my head?

Thanks again.

Would using a magnetic field work? Sand is mostly silicon dioxide which is not magnetic, and even if the sand is charged it needs to be moving in order to feel a force from a magnetic field. I imagine the 'static' is something similar to when you rub a ruler and bits of paper stick to it. Can't think of a way to do this that sounds like the sand compaction tool offhand though.

SadisticCynic wrote:Sand is mostly silicon dioxide which is not magnetic...

Neither is a human body but it can still be affected by an electromagnetic field, such as in an MRI... or not falling through the floor. Electric fields and Magnetic fields are opposite aspects of electromagnetism, which holds atoms together.

Static is electrical, not magnetic.

yet oddly enough, neither does much to sand..... we know this, because TV stations convert their signal into both for short and long distances (learned this when I worked for the FCC Hotline, asking why the signal did funny shit despite having line of sight- damn thing morphs as it goes along, leaning to one side of the electromagnetic force, and then the other)- and I have yet to see a sand shield over any tower in the middle east. And just how are they going to charge this? From the mythical Fremen powerplant that cremates everyone, runs their welding and light manufacturing industry for building and maintaining their thumpers and windtraps?

In fairness- they have magnetically levitated frogs- so it's not a impossible leap.....(frog- leap)....... but it's not too realistic unless on imagines a modified personal shield that is designed to last for a long time in combat conditions- who's power consumption to battery size has to be VERY LOW by default in order to be of any use.

Tisk Tisk- everyone is so moody.

say, I thought you were leaving ....

typical internet fag - make a big "I've said all I have to say to you morons" drama-queen
moment, then keep hanging around the bar, looking for someone to blow ....

Onasander wrote:I thought

No you didn't. Not really. Or not very hard or for very long.

of it as a very sensitive personal shield

Kalam farigh.

if you are quick and quiet enough about it, you should blend in as little more than a anomaly during a sand storm.... worm has to be a bit overwhelmed during it to investigate every little rumble.

During a sandstorm on Arrakis you would have other things to worry about before a worm.

FAIL.


Ah, and yet more empty prattle! Wonderful!

Sand can hold a charge, here's an example: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Physics-1358 ... ricity.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sand moves naturally on Arrakis generating a static charge, this is one of the reasons shields aren't commonly used there.

"Someone has lied to you, Count," the Baron said. "Smugglers cannot
navigate, the southern reaches any better than can Rabban's men. Storms, sandstatic,
and all that, you know. Navigation markers are knocked out faster than
they can be installed."

He looked out across the gray light of the desert landscape, the landscape
beyond pity, the sand that was form absorbed in itself. Dry lightning streaked a
dark corner to the south -- sign that a storm had built up its static charge
there. The roll of thunder boomed long after.

Paul thought of the storm sweeping across the basin, the static charge
within the wall of sand that destroyed every shield barrier in the enemy camp.

But the Emperor stood alone now on his dais pointing toward the doors. A
forty-meter section of the hutment had been blasted away there and the
selamlik's doors opened now onto drifting sand. A dust cloud hung low over the
outside world blowing from pastel distances. Static lightning crackled from the
cloud and the spark flashes of shields being shorted out by the storm's charge
could be seen through the haze. The plain surged with figures in combat --
Sardaukar and leaping gyrating robed men who seemed to come down out of the
storm.

It's in the book, reading is fundamental.

While crouching on 'Teva' sandals to examine the sprouts, I noticed my finger near the sand surface felt like it was being struck by a small pebble every second or so. I soon realized I was feeling the discharge of static electricity! Evidently the Teva sandals insulated me, and there was enough charge built up by the impacting sand grains upon my ankles and legs to discharge across a gap of about 5mm once per second or so. I was wearing synthetic long pants; see photo 22. Subsequently, I learned that saltating sand grains are known to carry an electrostatic charge, developed probably by friction between grains of differing sizes.

Two Weeks in the Life of an Active Sand Dune

Talledega Nights. In case anyone's playing at home.

HBJ

Holy shit, i can't believe their is a sand compaction tool thread. Two days ago i was wondering about sand compaction tools ( just finished re-reading Dune), i just couldn't picture them in my minds eye or wrap my mind around the concept. So i figured i would post a thread. As i was skimming through old posts (i'm new so i have alot of catching up to do), low and behold i find this hidden gem. I must confess i spend the better part of my work day skimming all the old thread and posts here, and my knowledge of Dune has grown exponentially. Kudos to the good folks at Jacurutu.

twistedmentat wrote:my knowledge of Dune has grown exponentially. Kudos to the good folks at Jacurutu.

Accept no substitutes for knowledge of REAL Dune!

Thank you for looking for an existing topic before posting.

Freakzilla wrote:Thank you for looking for an existing topic before posting.

is that mentioned in the "new users read this" post ?
do we have a "new users read this" post ?

I wouldn't say add this to "The Rules",
but maybe some "Guidelines to Wandering the Sietch" or something ...

I think most of us agree that we'd prefer only a few huge and re-resurrected threads on specific topics,
instead of an unmanageable mess of multiple threads ... easier for the new recruits to get up to speed,
too ...

Yes, we do. Good idea.

[edit]

We did... we do again.