Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

That one is legendary for its utter stupidity.

In terms of full-length stories, TheKJA's most-hated SW effort is undoubtedly Darksaber. My understanding is much of what he wrote there had to be "fixed" by later EU authors. Also, note that Keith is no longer writing in the SW universe. Coincidence? I doubt it.

I remember reading some reviews of KJA's Starcraft book (I think I posted some links here some time ago, too lazy to check now), and, according to one review (it had quotes as proof), KJA stooped as low as to quote, word by word, a passage from the Starcraft official game manual to describe a Terran Battlecruiser Yamato Gun. The guy who praises himself as a veteran Star Wars EU author couldn't rephrase a technobabble description. Another review also mentioned that he heavily refers to the game manual in other places as well, when describing Terran military units and equipment (no direct quotes, but still close to the text). I wonder if he played Starcraft himself, or at least watched someone playing.

MrFlibble wrote: I wonder if he played Starcraft himself, or at least watched someone playing.

I sincerely doubt he played. He probably felt like he didn't need to .... he's Keith Anderson, man! He's a professional; he can write anything!

That whole thing really does look like the mail-it-in hack-job of all time. I wonder at what point it was decided that it would be best to go with the "Gabe Moesta" pseudonym? It's pretty bad when even an egomaniac like TheKJA doesn't want his name on a book.

TheDukester wrote:That one is legendary for its utter stupidity.

In terms of full-length stories, TheKJA's most-hated SW effort is undoubtedly Darksaber. My understanding is much of what he wrote there had to be "fixed" by later EU authors. Also, note that Keith is no longer writing in the SW universe. Coincidence? I doubt it.

That, and the Jedi Academy trilogy. Still have fond memories of Mike Stackpole writing a parallel story and having a character (sometimes characters) point out how everything Kevin has Luke do in the trilogy is pretty stupid.

Lots of things had to be cleaned up after that one...

IIRC from what I've read about that Starcraft fiasco, Kevin & 'Becca wrote it together using the game manual and 'Becca's son Jonathan & his friends (still young teens at the time) as "informants".

Yeah, he evidently thinks a little bit of "research" makes him an authority on anything.

"Chisra Sala Muad'Dib" FTW!

I think the only universe he didn't damage beyond repair was the X-files, in which he wrote three novels. But then, getting the characters of Mulder and Scully right doesn't take too much skill (especially if you watch the show), and it's pretty hard to break a universe in which the dominant characteristic is that "weird, random shit happens, often without a logical explanation". That's KJA's M.O. right there.

Going back to the way KJA got involved with Dune, why do you think he and Brian did a "prequel trilogy" before the Legends or Dune 7 novels?

KJA maintains that "writing Dune 7" was what motivated him to contact Brian Herbert. But the prequel trilogy does nothing to set up Dune 7, and was probably the least exciting prospect for fans, compared to the books that came later. I could understand them writing he Legends trilogy first, since it *does* set up Dune 7, and also makes sense if Brian had discussed options for a BJ book with FH. But why bother with the Prelude books?

The only thing I can think of is that Brian had a bunch of Dad's background notes for Dune, and they thought it would be easier to spin a story around some of that material, rather than come up with something completely new right off the bat.

Thoughts?

HBJ

Hmmm. But haven't they been fairly consistent in maintaining that they had gotten together and "brainstormed" House Atrocity before any of those notes and stuff turned up?

It's always possible that BoBoHerb had some stuff other than the "boxes within (safety deposit) boxes within boxes" they mouthfart so about.

It's also possible that they're just lying.

The amount of un-Dune-like shit they introduce in the Preludes makes me wonder just how much usable FH material they could have had on hand. (Of course, we've been saying that about the whole enterprise for some time now.)

Either way, it's obvious that by House Corrino and the "ancient enemy" shit that they [read: he = KJA] had come up with idea of a return of the machines in "Dune 7".

Ugh.

there are no notes - never were - all the materials Frank left were working notes and drafts of
novels published in his lifetime, and are in the Fullerton Archive - end of fucking story ....

if any of the Living Herbert Parasites can dis-prove the above statement .... let them ...






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SandChigger wrote:At the very least it shows that he has never understood the point of The Scattering.

... and with that the Golden Path.

I should have written "one of the core ideas" instead of only "the core idea"... I get easily worked up whenever I read something the Hack has spouted out of his anus.

SandRider wrote:there are no notes - never were - all the materials Frank left were working notes and drafts of
novels published in his lifetime, and are in the Fullerton Archive - end of fucking story ....

if any of the Living Herbert Parasites can dis-prove the above statement .... let them ...

KJA's own words the best stuff is in RoD which means everything was swiped from Fullerton.

End of Bobo's fucking "story" ...

Serkanner wrote:

SandChigger wrote:At the very least it shows that he has never understood the point of The Scattering.

... and with that the Golden Path.

I didn't realize until just now that "Leto of Dune" is about Leto II. That's going to be a catastrophe. Leto is going to be like Spiderman.

It's also totally pointless ("I wonder if Leto is going to survive the novel?") It's just going to be another novel where the main character kills everybody without really being in any danger (see Paul of Dune). And they're going to make people hate the characters they're supposed to sympathize with. And they're going to mangle all of the ideas. It's going to be painful.

merkin muffley wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

SandChigger wrote:At the very least it shows that he has never understood the point of The Scattering.

... and with that the Golden Path.

I didn't realize until just now that "Leto of Dune" is about Leto II. That's going to be a catastrophe. Leto is going to be like Spiderman.

It's also totally pointless ("I wonder if Leto is going to survive the novel?") It's just going to be another novel where the main character kills everybody without really being in any danger (see Paul of Dune). And they're going to make people hate the characters they're supposed to sympathize with. And they're going to mangle all of the ideas. It's going to be painful.

I think Leto of Dune will be worth reading - to see just how wrong they can get it

Bonus points if they quote directly from FH interviews etc

Oh, yeah, Leto to the Throne of Dune will surely hit all of Anderhack and Bobo's usual high points: utterly pointless, poorly written, will further undermine FH's books.

Brian Herbert is "getting back" at his father — I'm more and more convinced of this every week. He's actually a minor species of evil genius for hiring the biggest hack he could get his hands on.

I thought it was "Irulan to the Throne of Dune" and (by extension) "Leto to the Golden Path of Dune".

And yes, it will be tragic.

HBJ

TheDukester wrote:Brian Herbert is "getting back" at his father — I'm more and more convinced of this every week.

do you think it is a conscious process though?
or maybe he truly believes he's doing well?

Is he smart enough to do all this... on purpose?

lotek wrote:Is he smart enough to do all this... on purpose?

That's one of Mr. Chigger's pet theories. He can do it more justice than I can.

I just hope there is a ghola-marie to fuel my rage.

TheDukester wrote:

lotek wrote:Is he smart enough to do all this... on purpose?

That's one of Mr. Chigger's pet theories. He can do it more justice than I can.

well I would have to agree on that, I mean it's what they call "acte manqué", when it is your failures that are your real goal, trying for success is only for your own sake so that you can still lie to yourself...
So he really believes he's doing what's best when it's pretty obvious he (and the HLP) couldn't have cocked it up more even if they tried their best(which is in itself a contradiction)...

right enough paradoxes for today!

TheDukester wrote:

lotek wrote:Is he smart enough to do all this... on purpose?

That's one of Mr. Chigger's pet theories. He can do it more justice than I can.

Seeing as how neither one really understands Dune or the type of storyteller that FH was, I would have to say that it is entirely subconscious.

lotek wrote:

TheDukester wrote:Brian Herbert is "getting back" at his father — I'm more and more convinced of this every week.

do you think it is a conscious process though?
or maybe he truly believes he's doing well?

Is he smart enough to do all this... on purpose?

I think one of his goals is to make as much money as possible. And he seems to have contempt for the original Dune books, perhaps because he couldn't write that well if he tried? All of that probably adds up to Brian having contempt for his father's writing, and therefore his father?

He can't feel good about the new books in comparison with the original books, and it's even more damning if he doesn't care. If he just doesn't care, it's purely for money. But if does care, he's gotta be jealous. Collaborating with his father, considering that he has no talent and his father is one of the best writers ever, had to be a painful experience.

Brain probably said, "Dad, let's add a dash of Mengele." And his dad must've been like, " ." And Brian was all, " " And now, Brian is like, "Fuck you, Dad! Princess Irulan wrote that shit!"

I've been REALLY looking forward to Leto to the Golden Path of Dune for quite some time now, but after the recent realization (after reading that "review" or comment on Amazon) that there's no way they won't do something with "Paul to The Preacher" at Jacurutu in Throne, I'm kinda psyched about it, too.

Either way, KJA thinks he's answered all future complaints and criticism with the "Irulan Gambit", so just watch for him to add ever more ridiculous elements to the stories. Does anyone doubt the guilt-casters were his idea?

My favorite version of the "Evil Genius BoBoHerb" conspiracy theory complex has Brian lying to everyone, even the other members of the family, about his true intentions. Who knows, maybe he's done a Ghanima on himself and HYPmotized himself into believing that he's doing good.

What do you think his "Secher Nbiw" phrase is, to bring him out of the dream?

SadisticCynic wrote:

TheDukester wrote:That one is legendary for its utter stupidity.

In terms of full-length stories, TheKJA's most-hated SW effort is undoubtedly Darksaber. My understanding is much of what he wrote there had to be "fixed" by later EU authors. Also, note that Keith is no longer writing in the SW universe. Coincidence? I doubt it.

That, and the Jedi Academy trilogy. Still have fond memories of Mike Stackpole writing a parallel story and having a character (sometimes characters) point out how everything Kevin has Luke do in the trilogy is pretty stupid.

Lots of things had to be cleaned up after that one...

The thing that always bothered me about the Jedi Academy trilogy is that it's basically a remake of the Thrawn Trilogy. (previously unknown Imperial Leader makes a come back (Thrawn<-->Daala) and some Dark Jedi crawls out of the woodwork (Joruus<-->Exar Kun.)) Most of the Star Wars EU pre NJO was basically people riffing on these two ideas over and over again, while occasionally introducing new super weapons. (KJA introduces the sun-crusher, others introduced Centerpoint Station, KJA came up with Darksaber although it was never used. Dark Empire 1 and 2 came up with World Devastator, Galaxy Gun and Eclipse class star destroyer.)

The other thing that bugs me to this day any time I read any SW fiction is the fact that KJA introduces a new character, Kyp Durron, who is a force prodigy who goes to dark side, blows up an entire solar system and then goes back to the light side and everyone's cool with him. Some one should be like "Let's keep an eye on this guy, he flipped his marbles and killed billions of people at the drop of a hat."

SandChigger wrote:What do you think his "Secher Nbiw" phrase is, to bring him out of the dream?

"I love you Son." Or something else that he isn't ever likely to hear.

"You're a literary legend, Brian."

I don't think Brian's out to tarnish his father's work. I think he's out to profit from it by writing books that sell well, and if those books aren't as good as Dad's, then so be it. I think he accepts some of the canon-bending stuff KJA injects into the new books because he sees KJA as an asset to the team - he's the better writer, and he's capable of pushing the writing forward to get a book out a year. And Brian doesn't care *that* much about being consistent with his father's work anyway. I think he respects what his father's done, but doesn't hold it up as something that should constrain him too much.

I think Brian sees himself as continuing his father's work, and giving it new life by putting new books out there every year. Are there some father/son issues there? No doubt. Does he wish that he could get out from his father's shadow and stand on his own as a writer? No doubt. But I don't think those things equate with a desire to sabotage his father's work.

HBJ