Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Brian and Kevin were working on their inter-equel series and then canned it to work on another prequel series. So far, we've seen all kinds of non-Dune things introduced into the McDunes. EMP blasts, Normacle, telepathy and so on. I now wish to make my prediction for the final insult to intelligent sensibility:

TIME TRAVEL!!

After all, BH&KJA probably have all kinds of notes for stories that were meant to take place between Children of Dune and God Emperor and such. How to use such elements with characters that live in the past? Now, it may be that I overestimate how awful these people are. But Winds of Dune was probably the worst McDune, so it seems like they are getting worse as time goes on. I hope I am wrong, but I can't say I would be surprised.

I'd say that's an educated guess, and the evils twins will most likely go for the easiest way to tie-in all their loose ends, godamnit their whole stuff is made of them anyway!

There is no doubt that it will get worse. Just when you think it cant get worse, these guys will show you the way. As I said before, just look at the trajectory of the whole pre/se/interquel mess.

Regarding Time Travel, I never thought about it, but now that you said it, I am going to wager heavy that we will see it. It will become some plot device for the school series, but conveniently forgotten about by the next book.

It turns out that prescience is created by little nano-machines in your blood. breeding has nothing to do with it. Norma just pops them in you while you sleep and presto! Prescience!

Also it turns out that Paul's prescience was just a side effect of him seeing the Navigator as a kid, He and Bronso just happened along at the exact moment that Norma was infusing the Navigator.

Was he upcocked when she was infusing him?

Considering how everything in those books is a cock-up...

Superdog, I hope you don't mind, but I went ahead and added your post to the predictions on HToD.

Predictions for the “Great Schools of Dune” Book Series

Under "Series Overviews..."

Time travel is the low point of SF.

McDune is the low point of Dune.

Sounds like a nice match. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this came to pass.

d'you think Keith will be smart enough to use time travel to save the universe from a specific threat,
then do a Men In Black memory-erasing on the future people the past people came in contact with,
so there will be no time-warping inconsistency-thing ?



I don't either ....

I thought for sure in Hunters the no-ship would end up in Dune's past and Duncan and them would be the ones to transplant the sandtrout to Arrakis.

Yeah, and thought you had a pretty good point with that, too.

I wonder if we went back and looked for where you posted that and we screamed and shouted about it, if it was at some point in time where they could have originally written it that way but still have had time to kill it before it went into print? (Of course, our outcry over the colossally retarded waterworms in the Youll cover art resulted in nothing but Byron shitting himself out of his facial bunghole about "cover art usually having nothing to do with the story." Of course, maybe by that time they were already well into the printing process; I don't remember. And there's always the real possibility they're just completely ignoring us.)




(Another possibility is that even their normally kiss-ass-so-hard-they-suck-halfway-up-KJA's-colon test readers revolted at a stupid time travel solution to the origin of the worms. ... Nah! )

SandChigger wrote: (Another possibility is that even their normally kiss-ass-so-hard-they-suck-halfway-up-KJA's-colon test readers revolted at a stupid time travel solution to the origin of the worms. ... Nah! )

I think they would've liked that. I think it would've left them stiffly upcocked.

There's a lot of that going around, it seems.


To think... I was here and witnessed the realtime birth of a meme.

Freakzilla wrote:I thought for sure in Hunters the no-ship would end up in Dune's past and Duncan and them would be the ones to transplant the sandtrout to Arrakis.

That is exactly the kind of simpleminded and awful idea that nine-year-olds mistake for "kewl". We might see it published yet...

For my money, the low point was, however, Paul joining the circus for a meaningless The Adventures of Young Who-are-we-writing-about-again! The artistic low point, that is.
The low-blow point of Shitting-On-My-Father-Grave-For-Cash-With-My-Family's-Newest-Financial-Partner was the ending of "Leto II was wrong because the Jihad was really The Terminator and Duncan was really the Hero, except none of that mattered because Norma was really The-Goddess-Who-Whisks-Away-Unsolvable-Plot-Points-And-Meanie-Robots-Enslaving-Mankind-For-No-Apparent-Reason" (That was how Frank described her, wasn't it?)

Paul joining the circus was a real zinger. Not only did Paul leave Caladan before for some battle on a strage planet, but he left twice before Arrakis, the second time being to join the Cirque du Solei. (actually it was three times if you count his *burth* on Kaitain.)

Here is my list of low points:
Hecate the Robot Dragon (that travels in an asteroid)
The names of the antagonists for the Jihad Series (names mythological figures of Human History).
Laser Pulse Swords (referred to as Light Sabers in other Sci Fi universes)
Sorceresses of Rossak (the whole bullshit story line)
Norma Cenva (the whole bullshit story line)
The fire gem incident with Leto and Rhombur
Rhomber as a cyborg
Mohiam as Jessica's mother
Mohiam causing the Baron to get fat
Stinkballs (during the Baron's etiquette lessons)
Paul born on Kaitain
Paul leaving Caladan before the events of Dune not once, but twice (to join the circus no less)
Circus performer/ninja clowns - a.k.a. Jongleurs!!!!
Irulan was just a revisionist, telling untruths about Paul's past (Irulan revisionism).
Potted Plants that turn into Chinese throwing star assassin bots
The swarm of hunter seekers in PoD where Bludd *saves the day*
Thunderclouds in Arakeen that turn into the face of Bronso - which can actually speak to the populace
Guilt Casting
Omnius and Erasmus being Daniel and Marty (not what FH intended)
Gross out war between the ghola baron and Uxtal
Paolo

These are just a few, I can go on, but these are a few for now.

Unfront wrote:Thunderclouds in Arakeen that turn into the face of Bronso - which can actually speak to the populace.

This is a new one to me.

Well, when you can't use a wizard, time travel will work in a jiffy.

It may have been froma cloud of smoke from some explosion or something, but his face was projected and his voice broadcast to let everyone know of a some big flim-flam-flumux being perpetrated by the Atreides.... eitherway, it was pretty obnoxious - I will take a look through my copy of Ill Wind this evening to pin point the chapter....

Got it for you.

Now, as the bodiless urn continued to brighten, Jessica heard heavy engines and flapping ornithopter wings overhead. Looking up into the darkening sky that shimmered with artificial auroras and shooting stars, she saw a group of flying craft in a tight formation spewing clouds of dense vapors, coagulating gases that spilled and swirled like a congealing thundercloud. An unexpected addition to the show? With a sound like shattering rocks, a sharp thunderclap rang out above the crowd in the square, followed by a low, menacing rumble.

The people turned away from the funeral urn, sure that this was also part of the ceremony, but Jessica knew it had not been part of the plan. Alarmed, she whispered to Alia, "What is this?"

The young woman whirled, her eyes flashing. "Duncan, find out what's going on."

Before the ghola could move, a massive, scowling face appeared on the underside of the cloud, a projection that shone through the rolling knot of vapors. Jessica recognized the countenance instantly: Bronso of Ix.

Wow... that is really SHIT writing.

The KJA dictahiking dick-tum: LET NO NOUN GO UNMODIFIED!

OK, keep in mind that I just got up about 45 minutes ago and haven't had my coffee yet and I spent about 30 minutes reading Banks (a REAL writer!!!) before I got up, so yeah, I'm going to be a bit bitchy after reading shit like the above...

But COAGULATING GASES and A CONGEALING THUNDERCLOUD? Would a THUNDERCLAP ever sound UNDER A CROWD?! (Well, OK, if they had just come from a beer & chili festival, maybe...) And why do we have to be reminded that Alia is YOUNG? Even "younger" would have been better.

Bad, BAD writing=use of language.

(Oh, btw, I think Paul is offworld four times: (1) Birth on Kaitain; (2) Trip to Ecaz; (3) Trip to Grumman; and (4) Circus Time! (The last includes visits to three planets? Ix, Chusuk, and Balut, was it?) )

Thanks for taking the time to post that. I am in the middle of reading Chapterhouse and I was not looking forward to breaking away and trolling through ill wind to find it...who knows what else I would have found along the way...that shit sticks to everything.

Regarding the passage - as if a formation of gas spewing ornithopters could fly around the capital of the empire long enough to cause this sort of ruckus without being shot down. The entire passage is not plausible. Not in the slightest.

Another low point in McDune: The swashbuckling mousketeer sequence in House Harkonnen, when Duncan goes to the Jedi Academy on Ginaz. That was pretty stupid.

Bad writing aside (lots of heaving lifting, i know)...

...but Jessica knew it had not been part of the plan. Alarmed, she whispered to Alia, "What is this?"

Jessica, alarmed. At what is obviously theatrics and blunt mob incitement. She'd never heard about these things as a Bene Gesserit? What is this? Really?

Imagine Frank writing something about how Jessica notices certain comments and gestures made by the same few people, subtle influencing a crowd to subvert their reactions to the spectacle of the Muad'Dib cult.
This is a great example of the difference in approach, understanding, subtetly and - as Sandchigger points out - simple ability.

Unfront wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post that.

No probs. It's never a bother to post something that can lead to a KJA bash fest. This is an ALL PLAY!

Have you read Paul of Dune yet? If you enjoyed the swashbuckling Duncan bits in the Houses, there's some regular Errol Flynn-worthy gay blade swordplay in there you'll just LOVE.


Lundse! Your comment about Jessica leads me to a question: Can a character be smarter than the author writing her or him?

SandChigger wrote: The KJA dictahiking dick-tum: LET NO NOUN GO UNMODIFIED!

COAGULATING GASES and A CONGEALING THUNDERCLOUD? Would a THUNDERCLAP ever sound UNDER A CROWD?! (Well, OK, if they had just come from a beer & chili festival, maybe...) And why do we have to be reminded that Alia is YOUNG? Even "younger" would have been better.

Bad, BAD writing=use of language.

I don't think this is , I think this is totally reasonable, because that shit is ridiculous. He seems to like the "rhythm" of modifying every noun, obviously in love with his own dicta-voice, not realizing that it's horrible writing. His head is so far up his own ass. he thinks this is "polished prose." I'd hate to hear what the "nearly-polished prose" sounded like.

"Young woman?" If that douchenozzle Solipso is going to bring in Strunk & White, what about "no unnecessary words?"

Oh yes, I've read Paul of Dunce! You know, I approach every book with an open mind. It is only fair. It is the same policy that a teacher told me that he would apply to everyone in the entire class: everyone starts with an A and then works down from there.

Using this method, Paul of Dune started with an A (on page one) and then by like page 50 it was at a D level and then by around page 75 it was at an F+, then quickly went to F-, if there was a lower grade even better, but you cannot get lower than zero.

I really do not like this jumping back and fourth between time periods. I understand it and can comprehend it when it is laid out like that, but that is not how I like my story (more on this later). The fact that they had to go backward and write up some of the most ludicrous crap in Paul's childhood, much of which was just an afterthought anyway, i.e. Paul leaving Caladan for some battle, Leto almost getting married to someone else, the potted plant throwing star assassin bots, complete with ...how did you put it: Rhombur crash, Rhomber smash at the wedding..... Not to mention the made for tv scene where Moritani’s son dies and Moritani lets out some guttural howl- as if he is a Klingon or something.....you know the scene. That is D- level creativity right there. (Can you post these two scenes so we can appropriately dissect and examine the stupidity? I think it would be a good showcase for those that have given up early and have not bothered with these interqualudequels.)

Irrespective of that, these guys then flip forward and talk about how Irulan was telling a made up story Paul’s birth in the original DUNE!!!!!! From 100 to ZERO points out of hand on that infraction alon. Even without the other lame shit, that alone would have brought the story from A to F in one sentence. There is no way on planet earth that Paul’s birth on Kaitain was pulled from Frank Herbert’s notes. Even if it was written in his notes (which they have never tried claim), it was not Frank’s intention because that is not how the book was published. These guys must be smoking socks or something.

Regarding the split story line in Paul and Winds, I have a sneaking suspicion that the HLP plans on releasing separate books in the future where all of Paul’s *childhood* is in one book, and all of the post jihad Paul is in another....just so the fanboys can have linear continuity on their bookshelves .

Hold on a second....... There, much better.

That feels good doesn't it? ... I am all for giving books a fair chance, but I have give these two morons six chances and they failed every single time, and that is where a drew the line.

Unfront wrote:These guys must be smoking socks or something...

Hmmm... haven't tried that...