The Spice, I'd like to know...
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I think we'd all agree that when an acolytes prana-bindu training (among other things) reaches a point when she can be expected to survive, she's ready for the agony. Sure, 'among other things' covers a lot of ground, but the point is that the psychokinesthetic mote-self happens in the agony and this gives RMs the power to manipulate chemistry.
Advanced BG pupils can manipulate their bodies even to the point of choosing the gender of their offspring but I don't think they are immune to poisons yet. Please correct me if this doesn't fit.
About spice and babies.
I don't remember if any babies were born to full Reverend Mothers. Any quotes would be greatly appreciated. Was Tegs Mother a full RM when he was born? Are Fremen babies born with the eyes of the Ibad?
Chigger makes a great point about a RM being able to, shall we say, stop spice at the cord thus preventing abomination. Given the control a RM has, I doubt that this would be a difficult thing.
We've all read about Alia, by the time Jessica learned the mote-self trick- it was too late.
Freak also has a great point about babies being born addicted to spice.
It's hard to imagine that a person capable of manipulating molecules on an atomic level would ever have to worry about addiction, but that's what Dune is based on. There must be some unique aspect of the spice that prevents fiddling on that level. So if the BG want a baby born spice free they wouldn't send a RM.
Advanced BG pupils can manipulate their bodies even to the point of choosing the gender of their offspring but I don't think they are immune to poisons yet. Please correct me if this doesn't fit.
About spice and babies.
I don't remember if any babies were born to full Reverend Mothers. Any quotes would be greatly appreciated. Was Tegs Mother a full RM when he was born? Are Fremen babies born with the eyes of the Ibad?
Chigger makes a great point about a RM being able to, shall we say, stop spice at the cord thus preventing abomination. Given the control a RM has, I doubt that this would be a difficult thing.
We've all read about Alia, by the time Jessica learned the mote-self trick- it was too late.
Freak also has a great point about babies being born addicted to spice.
It's hard to imagine that a person capable of manipulating molecules on an atomic level would ever have to worry about addiction, but that's what Dune is based on. There must be some unique aspect of the spice that prevents fiddling on that level. So if the BG want a baby born spice free they wouldn't send a RM.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:I don't have online text here with me, but I remember Jessica, in a stressed out state, identifying the wailing in her mind as that of herself as a baby -when the 'unknown Bene Gesserit' who had been ordered to bear her had left her.
That's right after she and Paul have escaped into the desert and are in the stilltent, after he has told her they're Harkonnens but long before she changes the WoL among the Fremen.FH in Dune wrote: But there had been a dream in this day's sleep, and she shivered at memory of it. She had held dreaming hands beneath sandflow where a name had been written: Duke Leto Atreides. The name had blurred with the sand and she had moved to restore it, but the first letter filled before the last was begun.
The sand would not stop.
Her dream became wailing: louder and louder. That ridiculous wailing—part of her mind had realized the sound was her own voice as a tiny child, little more than a baby. A woman not quite visible to memory was going away.
My unknown mother, Jessica thought. The Bene Gesserit who bore me and gave me to the Sisters because that's what she was commanded to do. Was she glad to rid herself of a Harkonnen child?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Which really, when you think about it, probably just means they were somehow able to divert spermatozoa on the basis of weight.D Pope wrote:Advanced BG pupils can manipulate their bodies even to the point of choosing the gender of their offspring
Good question. Of course, Fremen are addicted to normal spice, which in normal dietary doses obviously isn't enough to cause Abomination. (You figure pregnant women stay out of the Tau orgy? )Are Fremen babies born with the eyes of the Ibad?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I wondered about spice and babies, if Fremen aren't born blue within blue then addicted babies becomes moot.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Thanks for the correct quotation, Chig. Know I can count on this board.
Fremen children develop the eyes of the Ibad by age 12 or so, don't they?
Fremen children develop the eyes of the Ibad by age 12 or so, don't they?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
That was her code name, don't you know BG use code namese? DUH!Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:..who we know was Tandidia Nerus, not RM Mohiam.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Afwan. One is glad to be of service.Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:Thanks for the correct quotation, Chig.
Well, either way, once Jessica became a RM, she would have known exactly who her mother was.Freakzilla wrote:That was her code name, don't you know BG use code namese? DUH!Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:..who we know was Tandidia Nerus, not RM Mohiam.
Which makes it seem significant that she never bothered to rub the fact in, if Mohiam had been the one...
"Jessica!" the old woman screamed. "Silence him!"
"Silence your grandson yourself... MOTHER," Jessica said.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Actually, me and the wife started checking into this after she delivered her third boy. The key is in the fact that the male sperm swim slower than the females and there are various ways to exploit that.SandChigger wrote:Which really, when you think about it, probably just means they were somehow able to divert spermatozoa on the basis of weight.D Pope wrote:Advanced BG pupils can manipulate their bodies even to the point of choosing the gender of their offspring
On spice-babies... IIRC, in the latter books there is mention of older or high ranking BG being allowed to keep their babies, I believe that was the case with Teg's mother. Teg recalls his mom making spice smoothies for him when he was a kid. The Atreides were bred to be sensitive to spice, too.SandChigger wrote:Good question. Of course, Fremen are addicted to normal spice, which in normal dietary doses obviously isn't enough to cause Abomination. (You figure pregnant women stay out of the Tau orgy? )Are Fremen babies born with the eyes of the Ibad?
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
OK. I hadn't ever heard that about speed, actually. I was thinking that the males are slightly lighter than the females (Y chromosomes containing less genetic material than X).Freakzilla wrote:Actually, me and the wife started checking into this after she delivered her third boy. The key is in the fact that the male sperm swim slower than the females and there are various ways to exploit that.
Hmm... learn something every day!
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I believe the trick was to time the ovulation with the speed of the sperm, or visa-versa.SandChigger wrote:OK. I hadn't ever heard that about speed, actually. I was thinking that the males are slightly lighter than the females (Y chromosomes containing less genetic material than X).Freakzilla wrote:Actually, me and the wife started checking into this after she delivered her third boy. The key is in the fact that the male sperm swim slower than the females and there are various ways to exploit that.
Hmm... learn something every day!
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
...and then there's the ph of the womb, too- I believe it affects the wrigglers' speed depending on whether they're x-carrying or y-carrying. Which should be a piece of cake for a Bene Gesserit.Freakzilla wrote:
I believe the trick was to time the ovulation with the speed of the sperm, or visa-versa.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
There! That's the way to phrase it, isn't it?Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:x-carrying or y-carrying
(There was something somehow wrong with "female sperm". )
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I was gonna say, except that I got here a little late, the difference in weight between an X or Y chromosome would be a pretty difficult thing to go by. Particle physics (admittedly on a much smaller scale) literally ignores gravity.
Really cool about the speed thing though, didn't know that...
Really cool about the speed thing though, didn't know that...
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I'm left-carrying.SandChigger wrote:There! That's the way to phrase it, isn't it?Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:x-carrying or y-carrying
(There was something somehow wrong with "female sperm". )
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
That's better than sent-packing.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I'm leaning towards BG doing all their breeding before they become RMs, for example Lady Fenring is sent to seduce Feyd-Rautha in order to conceive an alternate line for the KH - not a RM, unless they are going to keep their children and raise them "inside" the BG, for example, Teg's mother. Otherwise, when RMs have sex, it's for imprinting purposes. For example, Lucilla... or for fun, like Sheeana.
Can anyone think of an example that doesn't fit that?
Can anyone think of an example that doesn't fit that?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I can buy that, seems to fit.This is a pretty good theory, do you think we're rationalizing or did Frank write it this way on purpose?
In my opinion, under the guise training, Frank intended Sheeana to be a freak..
The BG were no strangers to recreational sex.Freak wrote:Otherwise, when RMs have sex, it's for imprinting purposes. For example, Lucilla... or for fun, like Sheeana.
In my opinion, under the guise training, Frank intended Sheeana to be a freak..
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I hope he was thinking about it, especially when Murbella was cranking them out.D Pope wrote:I can buy that, seems to fit.This is a pretty good theory, do you think we're rationalizing or did Frank write it this way on purpose?
Yeah, I believe the BG got onto Sheeana about her Freakiness.D Pope wrote:The BG were no strangers to recreational sex.Freak wrote:Otherwise, when RMs have sex, it's for imprinting purposes. For example, Lucilla... or for fun, like Sheeana.
In my opinion, under the guise training, Frank intended Sheeana to be a freak..
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Drinking worm bile sounds disgusting
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
I think it probably sounds like drinking a smoothie.HarryCanyon wrote:Drinking worm bile sounds disgusting
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
In Dune Messiah, Paul goes to Alias Fane to meet his guide during the Evening Rite.
When Alia comes out, she is handed a golden chalice;
"...Paul knew that the chalice contained the unaltered melange, the subtle poison, her sacrament of the oracle."
no wonder I confused spice with WoL. Unaltered Melange? I know the spice gets refined but changed like the Water?
Typo?
When Alia comes out, she is handed a golden chalice;
"...Paul knew that the chalice contained the unaltered melange, the subtle poison, her sacrament of the oracle."
no wonder I confused spice with WoL. Unaltered Melange? I know the spice gets refined but changed like the Water?
Typo?
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
That was supposed to be the unchanged WoL, I believe.D Pope wrote:In Dune Messiah, Paul goes to Alias Fane to meet his guide during the Evening Rite.
When Alia comes out, she is handed a golden chalice;
"...Paul knew that the chalice contained the unaltered melange, the subtle poison, her sacrament of the oracle."
no wonder I confused spice with WoL. Unaltered Melange? I know the spice gets refined but changed like the Water?
Typo?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
So you're going with a typo?
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Maybe the editor did it?
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Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...
Yeah, it must have been an editorial contraction where Herbert used WoL and of course the contextual explanation ruined the passage's flow. That or I'm blowing smoke up yer ass.