Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Hey all,

It seems rather unclear if Kynes was ordered by the Emperor or by the Baron to betray Paul and Leto. Anyone know where that order cam from?

He didn't, he helped Paul and Jessica escape.

Kynes was loyal to the Fremen... or am I forgetting something?

He was ordered to ignore Harkonnen plots by the Emperor. However, he had gone native and his loyalty was to the Fremen, and then to Paul when he thought he might be the Lisan-al Gaib. He was never ordered to betray the Atreides.

he was captured by the harkonens after the overran arrakeen, questioned then taken out to the desert to die. so if anything he betrayed the emperor and harkonens.

Well, I think I know what Sihaya means.

There's a bit when Kynes first meets Paul and Leto when reference is made to (the first meeting of)"the people he was ordered to betray".

It would be the Emperor then, since presumably he didn't take orders from the Baron.

Yeah, Kynes was a "civil servant" and everyone knew he worked for the Emperor but had "gone native". He was the "Judge of the Change" and was supposed to be impartial (between the Harkonnens and Atreides).

Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:Well, I think I know what Sihaya means.

There's a bit when Kynes first meets Paul and Leto when reference is made to (the first meeting of)"the people he was ordered to betray".

So what betrayal is he thinking of here, cause you can bet Kynes knew nothing about the Sardaukar in Rams clothing that were coming on strong.

Dr. Yueh? If the Shadout Mapes knew, you can bet Liet-Kynes knew.

But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.

inhuien wrote:But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.

I think the Fremen were always pretty prepared. They stole artillery from Sardaukar! Kynes helped Paul and Jessica escape. Duncan had been there for months, too.

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.

I think the Fremen were always pretty prepared. They stole artillery from Sardaukar! Kynes helped Paul and Jessica escape. Duncan had been there for months, too.

Firstly, if the Freman were always prepared, it doesn't mean knew any details. Just means they were always prepared. 2nd, are you referring to the stillsuits and stuff in the thropter, or do I have Lynchbleed, and If Duncan knew anything actionable he'd have told Leto. I move for unrealised prescience on Kynes side.

more of that discussion from the very begininng, in-line with the Emperor's motives ....

I believe Kynes knew full well the Emperor planned to allow the Harkonens to attack the
Atreides and destroy them ... did he know the Baron would do the deed with the Emperor's
Blade in his hand? would this make much of a difference to Kynes, anyway, who had a much
different agenda ?

I believe Kynes saw the Emperor's trap, and shrugged .... it did not matter to him who was
"grubbing the spice" ... I think his "regret" was only as an honorable man, seeing the value
and quality of the Atreides, in comparison to the Harkonnens ...

as Judge of the Change, he was "ordered" to overlook the preliminary War-of-Assassins activity
on Arrakis, which apparently then should have been some type of violation ...


(I'm still on the Trail, don't have access to the pdfs; Freak can post the quote I'm thinking
of, and there may be more right there)