Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

JustSomeGuy wrote:Well, there you go.

I think it's time to change your username if you can't man up and back up your up-until-now useless opinions in this thread. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that your posts here are fucking stupid.

Well, there you go again.

No seriously buddy, someone doesn't have to be good at YOUR VERSION of Christianity to be Christian. I'm not wrong about this at all, I happen to actually know quite a lot about it - if a person believes in Jesus Christ as saviour, and accepts that emotionally, they're a Christian - end of story.

When people (like you) try to redefine a word you make yourself look like a child and you muddy the waters of conversation. I don't care if your religious leader/teacher taught you this, they're wrong too.

The word means what it means, it doesn't mean "perfect Christian" or "Christian like me" or "Christian like I think Christ intended Christians to be". I'm sorry if your logic has simply failed you on this.

You are wrong. It's not enough to believe in Christ. You must live life on His terms. I'm sorry your logic has simply failed you in this, and I'm sorry that I even got involved in this thread. It is too bad about Steve Jobs, though. He will be missed, I'm sure.

You're saying you have to live life on Christ's terms? In that case there are probably a very small handful of Christians in all of history.

The VAST majority of Christians would dissagree with you on that, the point is to attempt to live life by his teachings.

I'm sorry buddy, you DO NOT have to be a perfect Christian to be a Christian.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:You're saying you have to live life on Christ's terms? In that case there are probably a very small handful of Christians in all of history.

The VAST majority of "Christians" would dissagree with you on that, the point is to attempt to live life by his teachings.

I'm sorry buddy, you DO NOT have to be a perfect Christian to be a Christian.

Ah, I agree with you. Also, I'm glad we're buddies.

Umm. Anyways.

The point is that it is entirely invalid to call someone who belives in and accepts Christ as saviour is attempting to follow his teachings not a Christian, just as they can't say the same about you, it's nonsense, it just doesn't work. You can say they suck at being Christian, or that they've got it all wrong, or that they're completely insane, but they are indeed Christian.

Umm. Yeah. Anyway...

Christians fuck up, too, is what you're saying? Well. we all do.





I just didn't like this, but really- who gives a shit what I think. I'm not a Christian. In the future, I'll be more careful about stating my opinions as facts.

Seriously?! I just had this whole argument with someone who's not even Christian?

What is going on, is this insane backwards day or something?!

This has been a really, really weird weekend.

Aw, man, I don't know what your weekend was like, but I can totally relate to that statement.

JustSomeGuy wrote:You are wrong. It's not enough to believe in Christ. You must live life on His terms. I'm sorry your logic has simply failed you in this, and I'm sorry that I even got involved in this thread. It is too bad about Steve Jobs, though. He will be missed, I'm sure.

He's actually not wrong and you know it. According to their book all you need is belief and that works cannot save someone. Coming here and reposting items and throwing out idiotic statements without backing them up makes you as bad as Margie Phelps and Kevin J. Anderson combined.

Freak, can we get this thread split?

Nekhrun wrote:Freak, can we get this thread split?

I exist only to serve.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Seriously?! I just had this whole argument with someone who's not even Christian?

What is going on, is this insane backwards day or something?!

It wasn't an argument at all. JSG was just spouting nonsense.

There was ONE post where he attempted to argue, so I'll consider it an almost-argument, other than that though it indeed was just him saying "no" over and over with no argument to back it at all.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:There was ONE post where he attempted to argue, so I'll consider it an almost-argument, other than that though it indeed was just him saying "no" over and over with no argument to back it at all.

This would be a good thread to hear from some practicing Christians. I'd also like to hear what they have to say about Mormonism being a Christian religion. Yea or Nay?

Definitely would be good to get some good moderate practicers (hey, I think we know one or two of those ) opinions on this.

MY opinion on Mormons is that yes they're Christian because they believe in Jesus as a diety, saviour, yadda yadda (as opposed to say Islam, where they believe in Jesus, but only as a prophet not as a diety) - they just added a whoooolllle bunch of whacky shit on top of the original religion. So as a religion I wouldn't necessarily call them Christians, because they're Christians+weirdshit, but just from a semantics point of view they definitely are Christian.

I'm still poisoned by my 20+ years of Evangelical-Born-Again-Bible-is-the-word-of-God-Christianity. I truly believed that Mormonsim was a cult back then. Now they're all just as silly to me and it's kind of fun to watch them turn on each other.

Now, if I'm consistent, I'd have to say they all go into the same group. Now Catholicism is a different story with all the Mary and saint worship. If any sub-group of Christianity is a cult, it's them.

A Thing of Eternity, Nekhrun. Nekhrun, especially. Some of my statements got your panties all up in a bunch, and for that I am sorry. Sheesh...

Those people aren't Christians. What a disgrace.

I went on to post that in the future I'll be more careful about stating my opinions as facts, but I guess you just ignored that statement.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Oh yes they are, they're just crazy ones. Being Christian doesn't require that you be GOOD at it, just that you believe in it...

Wrong. That's wrong. It's just wrong. If you have read the New Testament, then you have done so with little understanding.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Do you see? You don't get something for nothing.


Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

However, salvation through grace does not mean you don't have to obey God.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:IF SOMEONE BELIEVES IN JESUS CHRIST (AS SAVIOUR) THEN THEY ARE CHRISTIAN, END OF STORY.

Wrong again, “buddy.”

James 2:18-24 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by myworks. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d]And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 


I would tell you both to suck on that (and I guess I just did) but I want us all to get along. If we can't be friends, then my hope is that we can be cordial.

I'll be lurking, and I'm sure you will respond. I just don't want to get into a huge argument about this, but we'll see what happens.

Oh I've read the new test over the years indeed. Your quotes don't really line up with what my point is (and yes some of what I said was obviously simplified for clarity) - my point is that nobody can call someone else "not a Christian" because they dissagree with that group or person's version or Christianity, OR because they're not doing a good job of being a Christian.

Nobody does a perfect job of being Christian, so where do you draw the lines between not quite perfect, and kinda pretty good at it, and mediocre, ok now you're kinda getting this wrong, hold on-youbelievewhat?, dear gods-you're a horrible person, and you're simply so bad at this that you're not even Christian. One CANNOT draw this line, nobody except for some hypothetical god could accomplish this.

You're missing my point and arguing with a point that I'm not making (though I'll concede that I did appear to be making it at some points, I oversimplified because I thought my point was extremely obvious clearly it wasn't, let me try again).

Just because someone has gotten something wrong in their interpretation of a religion does not disqualify them from being members of said religion if they really believe they are right and are attempting to do the right thing as per their god's instructions.


NOW is my point clear?

Also, you do realize that your quotes have NOTHING to do with whether or not a person is a Christian, they just explain some instructions Christians should try to follow right? None of those say "you are only a Christian if you do _____" they just imply that a Christian SHOULD behave that way in order to get into heaven.

JustSomeGuy wrote:A Thing of Eternity, Nekhrun. Nekhrun, especially. Some of my statements got your panties all up in a bunch, and for that I am sorry. Sheesh...

So are you putting down people who wear panties? Nice.

More like your non-statement statements tell us more about you then an actual opinion might have.

Also, I'm quite certain I've read the bible (including multiple translations) many more times than you have. And you should realize that to Christians, the words of Jesus trump what Paul wrote. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the texts. Especially since, as you say, you're not a Christian. Unless you've lived in that world it would be hard to understand how they live with the cognitive dissonance of their contradictory beliefs.

Belief in Jesus as God's son=Christian. Hypocritical behavior and a screw-up here and there don't get your membership revoked.

Like I said earlier, if actually following the religion's instructions (have fun picking which direction to go when it forks...) is what's required to be a Christian, then there is no such thing as a Christian, none have ever lived (maybe a few have gotten close over the centuries).