Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Crysknife wrote:Well I think the Fremen were in control the whole time. Their collective consciousness insured that the events that led to Paul would come about. And that meant the Guild never tried to take control. This is my thought as to what the "higher plan" was.

Do you perhaps mean collective unconscious?

SadisticCynic wrote:

Crysknife wrote:Well I think the Fremen were in control the whole time. Their collective consciousness insured that the events that led to Paul would come about. And that meant the Guild never tried to take control. This is my thought as to what the "higher plan" was.

Do you perhaps mean collective unconscious?

Yeah... I was just going to comment on that. "Collective consciousness" to me implies some sort of hive-mind. Is that how you conceive the tau?

I guess that would fit better. Frank has used the same concept in a some of his books. A Jungian concept. Yeah, the tau worked to their goals, as if they were a collective oracle. This would explain things like Uliet falling on his blade. An omen.

Ah, you mean this then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious

I have had similar thoughts myself (as in, FH used this concept).

Let's not mention Fullerton if we can avoid it, we're dealing with some seriously immoral people, can't be too careful.

Crysknife wrote:I guess that would fit better. Frank has used the same concept in a some of his books. A Jungian concept. Yeah, the tau worked to their goals, as if they were a collective oracle. This would explain things like Uliet falling on his blade. An omen.

That could be part of why the Guild never really clued in to the Fremen terraforming plan. If the tau state approximated an oracular power (and, as we know prescients like the navigators are blind to other prescients) the Freman activities would be difficult, if not impossible, to suss out via prescience.

The Guild did not have unlimited prescience, it was limited and linear.