The Bene Gesserit in public opinion
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I don't think I ever really understood the topic.
Public opinion in the Duniverse or our universe? When?
In the pre-tyrant Duniverse they were mysterious witches and prefered to remain behind the scenes. They seemed like a finishing school for noble women.
Post-tyrant, they seem to be arbitrators and have stepped out from behind the scenes to guide humanity more directly. I think this is a function of their failure to harness their KH.
Public opinion in the Duniverse or our universe? When?
In the pre-tyrant Duniverse they were mysterious witches and prefered to remain behind the scenes. They seemed like a finishing school for noble women.
Post-tyrant, they seem to be arbitrators and have stepped out from behind the scenes to guide humanity more directly. I think this is a function of their failure to harness their KH.
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I found the description of Alia fighting naked against the training droid pretty hot. Plus she had attitude, (although she was otoh crazy).
Could go for Dama as the older woman, maybe? She must have some hella experience.
Could go for Dama as the older woman, maybe? She must have some hella experience.
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!
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God Leto said the BG try to guide humanity, but due to being part of humanity themselves they're changed with it and have only a partial view and understanding of it, unlike himself with his complete OM and prescience.
"But the only people I have considered eliminating are the Bene Gesserit."
Her shock was too great for words.
"They are so close to what they should be and yet so far," he said.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.
I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
- SandChigger
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Wasn't he more POed with them for not having seen or not acting to create the Golden Path, for seeking political power with their puppet KH on the throne instead of trying to preserve the species? Wasn't that how they failed to be "what they should"?
Grrrr. I thought I explained this clearly enough in the OP.Freakzilla wrote:I don't think I ever really understood the topic.
Public opinion in the Duniverse or our universe? When?
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
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I think the BG were trying to do right, but their shortcomings, meaning not having the powers of observation of a KH, led them astray.
They never knew how or what to do in a Golden Path, though clearly they've sensed something was wrong and something should've been done.
They just couldn't put their finger on those somethings.
Also, like I said, they themselves changed in time, which they didn't anticipate enough, a glaring oversight by their part.
Furthermore, I think, like Emperor Paul, they were bogged down and restricted by other powers.
God Leto in his infinite wisdom took over just about everything and steamrolled humanity to get his glorious GP underway.
All hail God Leto!
They never knew how or what to do in a Golden Path, though clearly they've sensed something was wrong and something should've been done.
They just couldn't put their finger on those somethings.
Also, like I said, they themselves changed in time, which they didn't anticipate enough, a glaring oversight by their part.
Furthermore, I think, like Emperor Paul, they were bogged down and restricted by other powers.
God Leto in his infinite wisdom took over just about everything and steamrolled humanity to get his glorious GP underway.
All hail God Leto!
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.
I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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bumpity bump! I wanna play!
Going back to page 2ish or so, concerning the WoL and OM: Jessica and the Fremen RM, as well as Lucilla with the Lampadas Horde, gained those memories by Sharing, no? Isn't this a somewhat watered down form of undergoing the Spice Agony? It definitely seems to be a separate process altogether. My belief was that successfully becoming a RM unlocked the memories of female ancestry, so in effect they've been there the whole time, they just need a spice-induced kick to the head to get them active. Sharing, on the other hand, required no massive drug overdose.
The more I think about this, Sharing really muddies the OM picture. Spock would be proud, though.
Going back to page 2ish or so, concerning the WoL and OM: Jessica and the Fremen RM, as well as Lucilla with the Lampadas Horde, gained those memories by Sharing, no? Isn't this a somewhat watered down form of undergoing the Spice Agony? It definitely seems to be a separate process altogether. My belief was that successfully becoming a RM unlocked the memories of female ancestry, so in effect they've been there the whole time, they just need a spice-induced kick to the head to get them active. Sharing, on the other hand, required no massive drug overdose.
The more I think about this, Sharing really muddies the OM picture. Spock would be proud, though.
Poop is funny.
MetaCugel8262 is not.
MetaCugel8262 is not.
- SandChigger
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Yeah, it REALLY does muddle it.
And Spock is right, too, since Sharing obviously involves T-P telepathy. (But not toilet paper!)
I still like the Shared OM in the brain, ancestral OM in the body theory; otherwise you have to imagine how all that information could be transferred from one body to another and then recorded in the recipient's DNA.
That would, IMO, make OM jump the shark.
And Spock is right, too, since Sharing obviously involves T-P telepathy. (But not toilet paper!)
I still like the Shared OM in the brain, ancestral OM in the body theory; otherwise you have to imagine how all that information could be transferred from one body to another and then recorded in the recipient's DNA.
That would, IMO, make OM jump the shark.
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
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Sharing must be done in the in the of spice essence OR when death is imminent:
Odrade watched them from her chair behind the table. Those two had become like
a single person since yesterday's Sharing, not an unexpected occurrence.
Precedents were known, although not many of them. Exchanges, occurring in the
presence of poisonous spice essence or at an actual moment of death, did not
often allow further living contact between participants. It was interesting to
observe. The two backs were oddly alike in their rigidity.
~CH:D
Odrade watched them from her chair behind the table. Those two had become like
a single person since yesterday's Sharing, not an unexpected occurrence.
Precedents were known, although not many of them. Exchanges, occurring in the
presence of poisonous spice essence or at an actual moment of death, did not
often allow further living contact between participants. It was interesting to
observe. The two backs were oddly alike in their rigidity.
~CH:D
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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I'm with you on that one. No way to physically alter DNA post-sharing in the recipient.SandChigger wrote:Yeah, it REALLY does muddle it.
And Spock is right, too, since Sharing obviously involves T-P telepathy. (But not toilet paper!)
I still like the Shared OM in the brain, ancestral OM in the body theory; otherwise you have to imagine how all that information could be transferred from one body to another and then recorded in the recipient's DNA.
That would, IMO, make OM jump the shark.
Does shared OM later become part of ancestral OM in the offspring of the RM if said offspring undergoes the Agony? If so, that complicates matters......
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I don't think so, I don't remember it being mentioned. Alia got the SM from Ramallo but that was because she was in Jessica's womb.Tleilax Master B wrote:Does shared OM later become part of ancestral OM in the offspring of the RM if said offspring undergoes the Agony? If so, that complicates matters......
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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It would be quite odd if you had two voices arguing about the real meaning of something, both of them from different "copies" of the same person, wouldnt it. I can see them now fighting to see who gets to say something during adab.Mandy wrote:SM may not be passed through offspring but it survives by being shared again and again. I wonder what happens when you have an ancestral memory and a shared memory of the same person.. probably nothing, lol just a strange thought.
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Yeah, especially if they are womenOmphalos wrote:It would be quite odd if you had two voices arguing about the real meaning of something, both of them from different "copies" of the same person, wouldnt it. I can see them now fighting to see who gets to say something during adab.Mandy wrote:SM may not be passed through offspring but it survives by being shared again and again. I wonder what happens when you have an ancestral memory and a shared memory of the same person.. probably nothing, lol just a strange thought.
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Ghanima said Bene Gesserit training is primarily to prepare an acolyte for Other Memory.
It's bad enough arguing with your own voice in your head, not to mention all your ancestors and people you've Shared with, and who they shared with... and all their personal voices...
It's bad enough arguing with your own voice in your head, not to mention all your ancestors and people you've Shared with, and who they shared with... and all their personal voices...
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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