Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

SandRider wrote:I am the WaterMaster of this Tribe.

I come claiming water-rings.

SandRider wrote:If you have a facebook account
you're probably on Correct The Record™'s #EnemiesList
already

remember, Facebook Admins will automatically post-block
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Spicelon wrote:
Anyway, in a really small nutshell...why were the Fremen so willing to play their part in what eventually happened?

Spicelon wrote:Or was it just a matter of a LOT of pent up anger after so many millennia of persecution?

Spicelon wrote:So does everybody else think I'm a spammer? SandRider really confuses me, but then again, I seem to remember that often being the case.

SandRider wrote:If you have a facebook account
you're probably on Correct The Record™'s #EnemiesList
already

remember, Facebook Admins will automatically post-block
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It only takes 250 Paid CTR Trolls to lock you out of your facebook
if you run a business or small non profit, you are fucked
this is what's going on on this fine sunday, kids

a multimillion dollar corporate superPAC just put thousands of Bernie Kids™
in Facebook Jail

Freakzilla wrote:It wasn't just the pent up aggression of the Fremen but of the human race. RM Mohaim speaks early on in Dune of the race's desire to mingle genes caused by centuries of stagnation and even predicts the Jihad.

Freakzilla wrote:If it hadn't been Paul and the Fremen it would have been Paulette and Feyd's son (KH) and the Sardaukar.

georgiedenbro wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:If it hadn't been Paul and the Fremen it would have been Paulette and Feyd's son (KH) and the Sardaukar.

Right. But I meant if the bloodline as such was lost for some reason (for instance if Yueh hadn't saved Paul and Jessica) that wouldn't have forstalled the jihad for long. From what Mohiam said there was a tension building in the entire human race that needed to be released, subliminally something like a sexual tension. While Dune was an ideal place to deliberately initiate the jihad due to its spice production in practice we know that the Missionaria had planted similar seeds on countless worlds in the event a mahdi myth should be needed by the BG. No doubt an insurrection could have begun somewhere else as well using a different messiah so long as it fulfilled the BG plan. All a revolt would need to do is secure Arrakis as their first target in order to make a coup viable in the long term. As it was the KH project 'worked as intended.'

Dune, p.199 wrote:He remained silent, thinking like the seed he was, thinking with the race consciousness he had first experienced as terrible purpose. He found that he no longer could hate the Bene Gesserit or the Emperor or even the Harkonnens. They were all caught up in the need of their race to renew its scattered inheritance, to cross and mingle and infuse their bloodlines in a great new pooling of genes. And the race knew only one sure way for this - the ancient way, the tried and certain way that rolled over everything in its path: jihad.

georgiedenbro wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:If it hadn't been Paul and the Fremen it would have been Paulette and Feyd's son (KH) and the Sardaukar.

Right. But I meant if the bloodline as such was lost for some reason (for instance if Yueh hadn't saved Paul and Jessica) that wouldn't have forstalled the jihad for long. From what Mohiam said there was a tension building in the entire human race that needed to be released, subliminally something like a sexual tension. While Dune was an ideal place to deliberately initiate the jihad due to its spice production in practice we know that the Missionaria had planted similar seeds on countless worlds in the event a mahdi myth should be needed by the BG. No doubt an insurrection could have begun somewhere else as well using a different messiah so long as it fulfilled the BG plan. All a revolt would need to do is secure Arrakis as their first target in order to make a coup viable in the long term. As it was the KH project 'worked as intended.'

Naib wrote: I think the BG had been quietly hedging their bets and had Salusa Secundus in their back pockets as a possible focus to begin their jihad.

I think if Jessica had given birth to a girl and she had wed Feyd. That child would have been sent to SS in order to complete training and become a puppet figurehead for the witches.

georgiedenbro wrote:

Naib wrote: I think the BG had been quietly hedging their bets and had Salusa Secundus in their back pockets as a possible focus to begin their jihad.

Just remember that if Arrakis was not secured very quickly by a revolting faction the Guild would simply cut them off and refuse transport, and they'd be stuck on whatever planet they were on. The only viable way to pursue a jihad would be to first secure the Guild's cooperation.

I think if Jessica had given birth to a girl and she had wed Feyd. That child would have been sent to SS in order to complete training and become a puppet figurehead for the witches.

We should probably assume that Paulette would have been brought up as a BG, either trained directly by Jessica or else sent to a BG facility for education. One she was to wed Feyd, Paulette could then train the KH in the BG ways, which are supposedly far superior to Sardaukar methods. Recall that Paul was trained on Caladan by Jessica, Thufir, Duncan and Gurney.

Another issue is that the conditions on SS didn't merely involve a hostile environment, but also a quasi-religion to unite the Sardaukar loyalty. This was a similar method to what the BG were planning for the Fremen, but it necessarily involved manipulating the trainees into subscribing to the dogma. While the BG use this method regularly to control the masses, they don't appear to believe in telling lies in this way to fellow Sisters. It's especially impossible in the case of RM's. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure it would have been possible for a BG to train on SS under such conditions even if it was desirable. Since the BG believe their methods are the most advanced in the Empire I'm not convinced there would have been any value in them subjecting the KH to any training system other than theirs.

Naib wrote: Thufir might have died before being able to train the next generation.

georgiedenbro wrote:

Naib wrote: Thufir might have died before being able to train the next generation.

There was always Piter

xcalibur wrote: based on all this, the BG had backup plans for attaining their KH and starting jihad.

if the Atreides line didn't bear fruit, they could've used Feyd-Rautha to breed a KH (presumably with the Fenring line).

from there, the KH could take advantage of the Sardaukar warrior religion to consolidate power. due to how precarious the political situation was on Arrakis, it would not have been too difficult to stage a coup. with a KH in power, a fanatical and well-trained army, and control of the spice, the stage would be set for jihad.

xcalibur wrote: and Lady Fenring considered seducing Feyd-Rautha.

Naib wrote:

georgiedenbro wrote:

Naib wrote: Thufir might have died before being able to train the next generation.

There was always Piter

Yeah. And pugs make great weapons.