Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

We know the Tleilaxu were described as being small with grey skin and sharp teeth. I imagined the Tleilaxu masters as Asian because I'm Asian (thus biased). How did you guys imagine the Tleilaxu Masters and Facedancers?

I've always thought of the Ixians as Asian. FH gave detailed descriptions of the BT so there wasn't much left to the imagination for me.

based on their name and related terms, I always assumed Native American ancestry, specifically Aztec.

xcalibur wrote:based on their name and related terms, I always assumed Native American ancestry, specifically Aztec.

Based on their attitude, customs, phrases, and long-term view of themselves compared to everyone else, I always assumed they were the future version of Islam. I believe the text even says they're Zensufi although I can't check for quotes right now. However I don't assume that their appearance has anything to do with their supposed roots since they deliberately bred themselves to look horrific to others. As Freakzilla said, I see them how the text describes, basically like grey goblins. I don't suppose we know what face dancers 'look like' although perhaps some basic model we never hear about makes it easier for them to change shape. For our purposes I don't think it really matters.

georgiedenbro wrote:

xcalibur wrote:based on their name and related terms, I always assumed Native American ancestry, specifically Aztec.

Based on their attitude, customs, phrases, and long-term view of themselves compared to everyone else, I always assumed they were the future version of Islam. I believe the text even says they're Zensufi although I can't check for quotes right now. However I don't assume that their appearance has anything to do with their supposed roots since I they deliberately bred themselves to look horrific to others. As Freakzilla said, I see them how the text describes, basically like grey goblins. I don't suppose we know what face dancers 'look like' although perhaps some basic model we never hear about makes it easier for them to change shape. For our purposes I don't think it really matters.

according to the Dune appendices, religion changed, fractured, and melded into a kaleidoscope of new beliefs. the Fremen are descendants of the Zensunni Wanderers, then there's Navachristianity, Buddislamic variants, Zen Hekiganshu, Talmudic Zabur, among others. I'm sure Islam was an influence, but the religion landscape in this future universe is so different that it's difficult to categorize.

there's no reason to doubt the goblin-like appearance of the Masters.

Sufi/Zensunni

Waff held his silence. He could see that all of them were reflecting on their
Sufi origins, recalling the Great Belief and the Zensunni ecumenism that had
spawned the Bene Tleilax.
~HoD

So, spiritual goblins then.

This image has been out there for quite a while:

I'm not at home so I don't have any quotes, but I remember Odrade describing Waff's eyes as beady and squinty during their walk on chapterhouse. I think of it from the perspective of Frank, and white people have definitely said my eyes are squinty and beady. I always wonder why everyone in space is typically so white! I really like the multi-ethnic atmosphere of Dune, but, at times, it feels a bit too White Appropriative like Lawrence of Arabia.

Also,I'm pretty sure Tleilaxu names are welsh. So I don't think names would be an indicator of ethnicity. Or maybe they are descended from the welsh?

Godemperorjames wrote:I'm not at home so I don't have any quotes, but I remember Odrade describing Waff's eyes as beady and squinty during their walk on chapterhouse. I think of it from the perspective of Frank, and white people have definitely said my eyes are squinty and beady. I always wonder why everyone in space is typically so white! I really like the multi-ethnic atmosphere of Dune, but, at times, it feels a bit too White Appropriative like Lawrence of Arabia.

Also,I'm pretty sure Tleilaxu names are welsh. So I don't think names would be an indicator of ethnicity. Or maybe they are descended from the welsh?

I think that the description Frank gives us implies that the Bene Tleilax are so different genetically that they cannot correspond to any human ethnicity. Also, human genetics would be so mixed up thousands of years in the future that I doubt any faction in Dune would represent a specific ethnic group. Just my 5 cents.

Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

There were several dark skinned characters in the books. Hwi Noree for example.

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

The Fremen were clearly influenced by islam. Chani was described as being darkly elfin and having olive skin. A couple reasons a multi-ethnic cast would make sense, but mostly because it was so far into the future that our idea of race wouldn't likely be applicable.

Not having an interacial dune cast demonstrates that they didnt really understand how different everyone was in Dune. Also a reflection of the type of people Hollywood felt would be popular and what they felt the American public would be most accepting of.

Godemperorjames wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Not having an interacial dune cast demonstrates that they didnt really understand how different everyone was in Dune.

Dune is about difference in skin colour?

Serkanner wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Not having an interacial dune cast demonstrates that they didnt really understand how different everyone was in Dune.

Dune is about difference in skin colour?

No, but it's assumed humanity is alien from our perspective. Why would they all be white?

Serkanner wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Not having an interacial dune cast demonstrates that they didnt really understand how different everyone was in Dune.

Dune is about difference in skin colour?

Dune is about the human species as a whole, not one particular racial ideal of skin colour, which is why American films are so unbalanced in terms of their casting, even nowadays. And, disregarding what ideas Frank intended for Dune to convey, it's just plain racist not to have an interracial cost in a country as diverse as America.

Omphalos wrote:So, spiritual goblins then.

I always assumed it was supposed to evoke the image of the Grey alien. No one but the BG would remember but the image represents mystery and hidden agendas.

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Several dozen generations living in the desert will probable cause genetic adaptations, darkening the skin. Their blood has already mutated to coagulate faster. That, and the fremen were described as being dark skinned.

On a separate note, I think race as we know it today is all but gone in the time of Dune. Skin color is less of a distinction than living on a different planet. Remember how Paul remarked how he had Harkonnen bone structure in his hands?

Godemperorjames wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

Not having an interacial dune cast demonstrates that they didnt really understand how different everyone was in Dune.

Dune is about difference in skin colour?

No, but it's assumed humanity is alien from our perspective. Why would they all be white?

Why wouldn't they? We are twenty thousand years into the future. If races have mixed they possibly come out as one general colour. Besides, adding different reaces adds nothing to understanding the story of Dune of the "difference" between groups. The movie shows the difference with bald Bene Gesserit, purple lipped Mentats and a misformed navigator. I think you want to add racial difference because it is deemed politically correct.

AnEhforanEh wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

WolfgangMercury wrote:

Godemperorjames wrote:Tell that to David Lynch, right?! I thought it was ridiculous that he made the Fremen just dirty white people as opposed to the clean Atreides white people. Would have been better to find an ethnic cast, in my opinion. Heres my 5 cents too!

Yes, I strongly agree with you that a film version of Dune should have had a far more interracial cast.

Why?

the fremen were described as being dark skinned.

This is the only reason to add different "races" to the movie.

It is far-fetched to say it is "ridiculous" to use only a white cast. That is just being politcally correct, nothing more. Adding different races into the movie adds nothing to the story telling.

Serkanner wrote:

the fremen were described as being dark skinned.

This is the only reason to add different "races" to the movie.

It is far-fetched to say it is "ridiculous" to use only a white cast. That is just being politcally correct, nothing more. Adding different races into the movie adds nothing to the story telling.

The dirty white fremen didnt bother me as much as the bald witches did.
And you are right when you say the story is more than just skin color (we're not talking about Roots with an all white cast).
But...
Im kind of a purist. I would have liked to seen a Dune film that just stuck to the book. The SciFi mini series came close, but it missed the mark on some of the major points.

If races have mixed they possibly come out as one general colour.

Except that the book gives several examples of diversity in skin color. Leto I was described as having olive skin. Yueh was yellowish (iirc). Duncan was richly tanned. Hwi was mocha skinned. Clairby was nubian-brother black...

Sure its 20,000+ years in the future but humans have spread themselves out in the cosmos. Only if they were kept isolated, in a microcosmic state, would humanity homogenize in the way your describing.

AnEhforanEh wrote:

Serkanner wrote:

the fremen were described as being dark skinned.

This is the only reason to add different "races" to the movie.

It is far-fetched to say it is "ridiculous" to use only a white cast. That is just being politcally correct, nothing more. Adding different races into the movie adds nothing to the story telling.

The dirty white fremen didnt bother me as much as the bald witches did.
And you are right when you say the story is more than just skin color (we're not talking about Roots with an all white cast).
But...
Im kind of a purist. I would have liked to seen a Dune film that just stuck to the book. The SciFi mini series came close, but it missed the mark on some of the major points.

If races have mixed they possibly come out as one general colour.

Except that the book gives several examples of diversity in skin color. Leto I was described as having olive skin. Yueh was yellowish (iirc). Duncan was richly tanned. Hwi was mocha skinned. Clairby was nubian-brother black...

Sure its 20,000+ years in the future but humans have spread themselves out in the cosmos. Only if they were kept isolated, in a microcosmic state, would humanity homogenize in the way your describing.

That is why I used "possibly".

There will never be a movie that just sticks to the (any) book. They are two different media.

Oh, i get what you're saying now.

Heh, sorry. My bad.