"New Canon" inconsistencies....

[SandChigger]

By the way, I was just talking to Mr Teg on the phone and he asked me if the email really was from Kevin.



It is, of course.

I was surprised that Teg of all people had to ask. But then, considering the fake PoD chapter and Dayton signing thing, I can see how someone might doubt. The thing that surprised Teg the most was that, after all the past history, Kevin would even respond to an email from me.

No one was more surprised than I was. I mean, he has blocked me from commenting on his MySpace blog or from sending him messages there. I half expected that he wouldn't reply, but sent the first mail anyway.

I suspect, given that he replied in less than two hours, that he's either been aware of our criticisms (maybe he's working on a new version of the FAQ?) or has had an answer ready from the very start, from when he (they?) planned what they're doing.


(By the way, should he deny having sent that email, I'll just publish the complete raw source for the message, the whole shebang, including the email addresses.)

[ragabash]

Yep. Let's go ahead and post it here, to save people a trip to my blog:

I sent:

Hiya. I do hope you and Rebecca are well.

I find myself in another one of those “gives me heartburn and keeps me awake at night” situations. I’m dying to know how you’re going to retcon Paul traveling to both Ecaz (twice, no less) and Grumman given that, three or four years later, both he and his father seem to think the move to Arrakis will be his first trip off Caladan. As Frank Herbert wrote in Dune:

The Duke looked at him [=Paul]. “This will be your first time off planet,” he said.

Come on, Kevin, be a mensch and share the joy!

Warmest regards,

Ron

He replied:

Your complaints have been incessant, but that one is even sillier than most. It doesn’t seem possible you could ask such a question having actually read PAUL OF DUNE, which is about the inaccuracies and liberties taken in Irulan’s purported histories of Muad’Dib. This is addressed several times in the novel, but most specifically to your question, see pp 102-103:

One morning she went to Paul’s Imperial office to talk with him, holding a first-edition of The Life of Muad’Dib. She dropped the deep blue volume on his desktop, a plane of polished Elaccan bloodwood. “Exactly how much is missing from this story? I’ve been talking with Bludd. In your accounts of your life, you left out vital details.”

He raised his eyebrows. “Your publication has defined my life’s story.”

“You told me you had never left Caladan before your House moved to Arrakis. Whole parts of your youth have been left out.”

“Painful parts.” He frowned at her. “But, more importantly, irrelevant parts. We’ve streamlined the story for mass consumption, just as when you wrote that I was born on Caladan and not Kaitain. It sounds better that way, doesn’t it? We eliminated unnecessary complications, cut off unnecessary questions and explanations.”

She could not hide her frustration. “Sometimes the truth is complicated.”

“Yes, it is.”

“But if I tell a part of the story that directly contradicts what has been published before –“

“If you write it, they will believe it. Trust me.”

Come on, at least TRY to look for an answer before railing about the books. Rest assured, though, that Brian and I will keep writing the novels, and keep writing them, for as long as it takes until you are completely satisfied. You give us the incentive to keep the series going for many years to come.

So I asked:

So your position really is that the entire narrative text of Dune and all of Frank’s books was also written by Irulan?

Simple question, simple answer: Yes or No.

As Nekhrun has pointed out in a comment on the post, they'll have to say it is some Bene Gesserit writing the last three of Frank's books, because Irulan was long dead by then.

(I'm counting on Kevin, if he bothers replying again, to obfuscate and avoid giving a direct answer to the question by pointing out something along those lines. What I get for posting before thinking. Grammatical error, too. )

Wait. Wait. So the entirety of the source material that's putting KJA's kids through college and braces... is now an in-world hack biography dumbed down to Oprah Book Club levels?

That's fucking RIDICULOUS.

[Omphalos]

That's fucking offensive, my good brotha.

Though to be sure "Dune" wont be dumbed down until KJA gets his greasy paws into it and "fixes" a few things in the next edition, right?

[ragabash]

That's fucking offensive, my good brotha.

Though to be sure "Dune" wont be dumbed down until KJA gets his greasy paws into it and "fixes" a few things in the next edition, right?

No doubt. I can imagine the internal monologue:

"Frank, thank you for your friendship, trust, and the whole making me rich thing. NOW DRINK DEEP OF THIS DRAUGHT OF MY URINE!"

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

Wait a minute:

Does Brian know about that e-mail?

Isn't that a bit disrespectful of the memory his father?

[Freakzilla]

Wait a minute:

Does Brian know about that e-mail?

Isn't that a bit disrespectful of the memory his father?

Oh, don't wake Brian up, they'll just have to change him.

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

Wait a minute:

Does Brian know about that e-mail?

Isn't that a bit disrespectful of the memory his father?

Oh, don't wake Brian up, they'll just have to change him.

I know...I only like to make a little arouse.



Kevin gave us the final prove that he indeed is a jackass, in the ultimate level.

I'm becoming really tired....

However, I'm still curious to know what Brian would say about all these stuffs. I would like to know his mind, even I'm knowing he had sold DUNE for a idiot like Mr. Anderson.

[Ampoliros]

I guess Kevin doesn't take into account that by proxy he is saying that Irulan wrote everything (frank's books and BH/KJA's) which in turn totally invalidates the entire Duniverse!

In the end he'll probably suggest that Irulan is locked up in Bellvue Hospital as a complete nutcase with a cinnamon gummi worm fetish who was attacked by an Arab with a knife. Her doctor?

Dr. Muadru

Poor Kevin.

[Freakzilla]

It was all a dream by one of the cast members of the TV show Dallas.

[SandChigger]

Surely they're not going to tell us Irulan becomes prescient and can foresee and write the three books after GEoD.

(When and where does Irulan die again? )

I guess Norma could sweep in like the Archangel Gabby and spill the beans, too.

Feh.

Nah, I'm voting for Harq al-Ada for Leto of Dune and Gaus Andaud for author of the last three books.


I was also thinking the other day, that if they really HAVE to write this shit, why the fuck can't they experiment a little more? (Other than the fact that this boring pattern has "worked" for them for nine books.) Irulan could be written all in first person, for example.

[Freakzilla]

Surely they're not going to tell us Irulan becomes prescient and can foresee and write the three books after GEoD.

(When and where does Irulan die again? )

I guess Norma could sweep in like the Archangel Gabby and spill the beans, too.

Feh.

Nah, I'm voting for Harq al-Ada for Leto of Dune and Gaus Andaud for author of the last three books.


I was also thinking the other day, that if they really HAVE to write this shit, why the fuck can't they experiment a little more? (Other than the fact that this boring pattern has "worked" for them for nine books.) Irulan could be written all in first person, for example.

Their MS Word "***** of Dune" template doesn't allow that.

[SandChigger]

Freak, can you think of ANYTHING in any of the narrative passages of the books that could possibly be twisted around to imply that everything is in-universe text?

Or do you know of any statement by FH in an interview or anything else he wrote that could be interpreted to mean that's what he intended?

I nearly broke down a few minutes ago and sent off another email to the shithead. But stopped myself because...do I really want to read more of his crap?

(Someone else want to try? )

[Freakzilla]

Freak, can you think of ANYTHING in any of the narrative passages of the books that could possibly be twisted around to imply that everything is in-universe text?

Or do you know of any statement by FH in an interview or anything else he wrote that could be interpreted to mean that's what he intended?

I nearly broke down a few minutes ago and sent off another email to the shithead. But stopped myself because...do I really want to read more of his crap?

(Someone else want to try? )

You can't be serious. No.

There's not much narrative in the series, is there? It's always from someone's POV. FH hardly ever tells you anything, that's what the epigraphs are for. The events in the entire series are always presented from the participants POV durring the events.

Nothing that I know of is presented as "according to soandso".

This is ludichrist. It's like arguing with Gabby Johnson.



Hey, I may have thought of a nickname for somebody...

[SandRider]

[Freakzilla]

[SandChigger]

There's not much narrative in the series, is there? It's always from someone's POV. FH hardly ever tells you anything, that's what the epigraphs are for. The events in the entire series are always presented from the participants POV durring the events.

Well, I'm using "narrative text" to mean the non-dialogue, non-internal-thought parts which are conveyed in the "voice" (or perspective) of the narrator.

I mean, take the first three paragraphs of Dune itself:

In the week before their departure to Arrakis, when all the final scurrying about had reached a nearly unbearable frenzy, an old crone came to visit the mother of the boy, Paul.

It was a warm night at Castle Caladan, and the ancient pile of stone that had served the Atreides family as home for twenty-six generations bore that cooled-sweat feeling it acquired before a change in the weather.

The old woman was let in by the side door down the vaulted passage by Paul's room and she was allowed a moment to peer in at him where he lay in his bed.

Whose perspective is that from? Paul's? All of it?

[Freakzilla]

I guess what I was trying to say is most of the narrative is first person.

There's not much like that bit is there?

[Lundse]

If Dune and all of Frank's novels are 'in universe books', that sort of sets them 'free', doesn't it?

I mean, we have their 'parent universe' (a slapstick travesty of laser bolts and stick charicatures of monstrous robots) and we have the Dune books written within that universe.
This means that FH's books, according to KJA himself, does not necessarily have anything to do with the NoDune universe... KJA is just spinning a fantastically uninteresting and stupid yarn about how some events (real in his universe) inspired the masterpieces of Dune.

Personally, I think the real-world 'there-was-this-guy-named-Frank...' story is more interesting, but if someone young and stupid want a story with lasers and buzzsaws and whathaveyou as an origin story to Dune, who cares?


The funny thing is that at DN, I once exemplified how easy it is to make something new consistent if you assign it 'canonical' superiority, as in 'Winnie the Pooh had this dream of a desert planet...' and then claiming your Pooh books and Dune are consistent because that dream. This explanation is at least funny and does not waste as much paper and time

[GamePlayer]

It's really just bullshit anyway. KJA doesn't really believe Frank Herbert's novels are that ridiculously subjective (or perhaps he's now so far gone he is the proverbial "salesman that believes his own bullshit"). If he did, why would they need Frank's notes to write more books, since it's all subjective anyway?

LOGIC FLAW!

Seriously, KJA is just saying Frank's books are subjective narratives because it's a tried-and-true debating tactic. The tactic is two-fold, used by KJA to:

a) distract you from the fact that he's made a mistake and...
b) appeal to the crowd by offering some reasonable doubt that most people will accept if they don't think about it. This part also has the effect of alienating anyone who notices his mistake as an "extremist talifan who spends their time poking holes in my good fiction" and you good people in the crowd don't want to be like those geeky losers do you?

Like Irulan says; "Kevin J Anderson is a pig, father, but he is not stupid"

[SandChigger]

"Bullcrap! ... We know what he created and we're not stupid!"

[Lundse]

It's really just bullshit anyway. KJA doesn't really believe Frank Herbert's novels are that ridiculously subjective (or perhaps he's now so far gone he is the proverbial "salesman that believes his own bullshit"). If he did, why would they need Frank's notes to write more books, since it's all subjective anyway?

LOGIC FLAW!

Seriously, KJA is just saying Frank's books are subjective narratives because it's a tried-and-true debating tactic. The tactic is two-fold, used by KJA to:

a) distract you from the fact that he's made a mistake and...
b) appeal to the crowd by offering some reasonable doubt that most people will accept if they don't think about it. This part also has the effect of alienating anyone who notices his mistake as an "extremist talifan who spends their time poking holes in my good fiction" and you good people in the crowd don't want to be like those geeky losers do you?

Like Irulan says; "Kevin J Anderson is a pig, father, but he is not stupid"

Or as Arnoldo would say: Poisoning the well!

Except he would mistake it for some other argumentative fallacy, of course (probably the straw man).
And not notice it when it is his idol doing it.
And not offer any examples or evidence.
Or be clear about what he meant.

Actually, it is nothing like an Arnoldo post and I am up too late again...

[SandChigger]

Going on 1:00 AM there, eh?


(Speaking of "analdo", has anyone read that "paper" he posted on Israel over there, linked to here by SandRider? Pretty amusing stuff. )

[cmsahe]

what a fucktard. he is taking his books as a more definitive history than Frank's books. it's pathetic that they've created so many inconsistencies that they are now writing books with the sole purpose of discrediting Frank's creations to justify their own.

I'm serious about this, I feel pain that KJA dared to claim that Dune is nothing but a set of Irulan’s purported histories of Muad’Dib, almost like if my father told me that I'm not his son. What a pair of morons, third graders BH & KJA are! (an apology to third graders)

If voicing my dissagreement with all this drivel and nonsense makes me a rabid, talifan OH then I happily accept the tag.

BTW SandChigger what's the address of your blog? thanks !

[SandChigger]

Just click my www button and then the link on the left: Chigger Blog.

(Brace yourself. It's not for the faint of heart. )

[cmsahe]

Just click my www button and then the link on the left: Chigger Blog.

(Brace yourself. It's not for the faint of heart. )

Thank you Sandchigger, your article on how to leave a message to the server administrator is so interesting, I left a message in the website of the mexican president! (i.e. the domain + \ your_hack_novels_are_boring_kevin)