Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?

Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

Schu wrote:

chanilover wrote:Thinking about a guy once doesn't make your gay any more than being attracted to men but hiding it and marrying and living a lie makes you straight.

Fish speaker talking to the Tleilaxu wrote:Long pretence makes a reality! you are truly vile!

I don't think that Tleilaxu was married with kids but went out cottaging for some cock. Keeping up a pretence for a long time doesn't make it a reality, it just makes the person more of a fraud.

Redstar wrote:

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?

Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

How did you know about Orald's habits?

Bisexuality implies sexual attraction to both sexes. Having another dick in the same room doesn't make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned on by the idea would make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned off would make a person straight. The mere presence of the cock in the room means nothing.

The reason guys jerk off is the same reason dogs lick their balls - it's because we can.

chanilover wrote:

Redstar wrote:

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?

Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

How did you know about Orald's habits?

Bisexuality implies sexual attraction to both sexes. Having another dick in the same room doesn't make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned on by the idea would make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned off would make a person straight. The mere presence of the cock in the room means nothing.

The reason guys jerk off is the same reason dogs lick their balls - it's because we can.

So what's FH's opinion?

Redstar wrote: That's my point. There are almost no purely-heterosexual men or women because we don't just 'ignore' our sex in porn representations, we 'accept' it because it doesn't get in the way of our sexuality.

No, we accept it because its part of a heterosexual act. Seeing an erection and not squealing in horror doesn't make you bi. Again, perhaps its the definitions of the terms "gay"/"straight"/"bi" which are the problem like I said earlier.

(Do discussions on here always go on tangents like these?)

This thread is like any other thread on the internet (so, yes)

NotAbout wrote:No, we accept it because its part of a heterosexual act. Seeing an erection and not squealing in horror doesn't make you bi. Again, perhaps its the definitions of the terms "gay"/"straight"/"bi" which are the problem like I said earlier.

(Do discussions on here always go on tangents like these?)

This thread is like any other thread on the internet (so, yes)

Our definitions must definitely be independently skewed.

What I find different about this particular forum is that people go waaaaay off-topic, then 10-somewhat pages later miraculously get back on-topic. Strangest tangent I've ever seen.

Redstar wrote:

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?

Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

This is getting strange...

People don't masturbate because they're turned on by their own genitals. The reason why nobody wears gloves is because people aren't afraid of touching their own dicks.

Touching your own body doesn't make you bi.

I can't believe I had to say those words...

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote:Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

This is getting strange...

People don't masturbate because they're turned on by their own genitals. The reason why nobody wears gloves is because people aren't afraid of touching their own dicks.

Touching your own body doesn't make you bi.

I can't believe I had to say those words...

I know people that were aroused by touching/watching their own bodies, which I suppose would be classified as selfcest. Or self-sexual.

Redstar wrote: What I find different about this particular forum is that people go waaaaay off-topic, then 10-somewhat pages later miraculously get back on-topic. Strangest tangent I've ever seen.

I've seen worse derailing.

Perhaps this thread has a tendency to get off track a little more than the rest because homosexuality isf a contentious issue. Everyone has a different opinion and feel strongly about it.

Seriously, this insta-boner-kill idea is quite intriguing. Does it happen to you? Maybe this is why I didn't come on to you before

If it doesn't, do you think that makes you to any degree bi, without you having any (conscious) sexual thoughts about men? Or are you "actively" bi?

I think that if you say that a person not getting instant boner-kill/....um... girl-boner-kill? from seeing the genitalia/body shape/whatever of someone of the same gender (or opposite gender if we're talking about teh gay) means bisexuality, that reduces the term bisexuality to complete meaninglessness.

Schu wrote:Seriously, this insta-boner-kill idea is quite intriguing. Does it happen to you? Maybe this is why I didn't come on to you before

If it doesn't, do you think that makes you to any degree bi, without you having any (conscious) sexual thoughts about men? Or are you "actively" bi?

I think that if you say that a person not getting instant boner-kill/....um... girl-boner-kill? from seeing the genitalia/body shape/whatever of someone of the same gender (or opposite gender if we're talking about teh gay) means bisexuality, that reduces the term bisexuality to complete meaninglessness.

I can honestly say that 99% of the time I fail to receive an erection from watching lesbian sex. It just bores me... On the flipside, homosexual sex also fails to give me an erection. I need both. I suppose that would make me bisexual in a way (at least according to my theory) but I don't actively seek out such encounters.

Wikipedia wrote:"Bisexuality refers to sexual behavior with or physical attraction to people of both genders (male and female), or a bisexual orientation. People who have a bisexual orientation "can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex"

Doesn't really help my argument, but I can make it work under a loose foundation.

Schu wrote:Seriously, this insta-boner-kill idea is quite intriguing. Does it happen to you? Maybe this is why I didn't come on to you before

Intriguing and... confusing.

reduces the term bisexuality to complete meaninglessness.

Yep, which is why I suggest we use the following test definition of gay/str/bi (I call it the masturbation test!) for our continued discussions.

1. Are you a man or a woman?
If man, go to question 2.
If woman, go to question 4.

2. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked men (alone)?
If yes, go to question 3.
If no, you are straight.

3. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked women (alone)?
If yes, you are bi.
If no, you are gay.

4. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked men (alone)?
If yes, go to question 5.
If no, you are gay.

5. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked women (alone)?
If yes, you are bi.
If no, you are straight.


Simple definition of the terms (but not sexuality itself of course)

*Whew*

I'm straight! I was getting worried there for a minute.

It works!!

Freakzilla wrote:*Whew*

I'm straight! I was getting worried there for a minute.

Curses!

Freakzilla wrote:*Whew*

I'm straight! I was getting worried there for a minute.

I'm a little disappointed coming from a guy with 'Freak' in his name and that particular BG quote.

NotAbout wrote:

Schu wrote:Seriously, this insta-boner-kill idea is quite intriguing. Does it happen to you? Maybe this is why I didn't come on to you before

Intriguing and... confusing.

reduces the term bisexuality to complete meaninglessness.

Yep, which is why I suggest we use the following test definition of gay/str/bi (I call it the masturbation test!) for our continued discussions.

1. Are you a man or a woman?
If man, go to question 2.
If woman, go to question 4.

2. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked men (alone)?
If yes, go to question 3.
If no, you are straight.

3. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked women (alone)?
If yes, you are bi.
If no, you are gay.

4. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked men (alone)?
If yes, go to question 5.
If no, you are gay.

5. Do you masturbate over (about/from seeing) naked women (alone)?
If yes, you are bi.
If no, you are straight.


Simple definition of the terms (but not sexuality itself of course)

I'm confused. Are you asking if I masturbate alone? Gay sex usually involves some element of masturbation, so I just wondered.

Is there a prize?

Redstar wrote:

chanilover wrote:

Redstar wrote:

NotAbout wrote:

Redstar wrote: I don't think it's something people think about. A guy watches a guy fuck a girl and he gets hard. That's what happens. But if he wasn't at least a little latently bisexual nothing would happen for him and he'd watch lesbianism instead.

But yes, projecting plays a much bigger part than latent bisexuality.

I don't agree at all. Bisexuality implies attraction to the same sex, if the man isn't attracted to men that aren't having sex with women then how is it bisexuality?

Well people jerk off, don't they? I mean, we must find our own tools sexually attractive enough to manipulate them... Otherwise we'd do it in the dark wearing a glove.

How did you know about Orald's habits?

Bisexuality implies sexual attraction to both sexes. Having another dick in the same room doesn't make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned on by the idea would make a person bisexual. Thinking about sucking it and getting turned off would make a person straight. The mere presence of the cock in the room means nothing.

The reason guys jerk off is the same reason dogs lick their balls - it's because we can.

So what's FH's opinion?

No idea, he's dead. But my thoughts on what he thought about gays are on the previous page of this thread.

chanilover wrote:

Redstar wrote:So what's FH's opinion?

No idea, he's dead. But my thoughts on what he thought about gays are on the previous page of this thread.

I don't want to go through that tangled mess of a page...


I really don't think we can know for sure FH's opinion from reading his books, though I'm some of you have looked into official sources to find this out.

It'd be like trying to figure out his opinion on drug-use from reading Dune. That wouldn't get us anywhere. I think FH was much too subtle to use his books as a mouthpiece for anything like that, unlike Heinlein's blatant endorsement of positive bisexuality, incest, and swinging.

Judging by the confrontation between Moneo and Duncan I'd say he considered it a phase people go through when they're young. Some people experiment and like it and stay with it, some are disgusted by it. But he seemed to indicate that trying to eliminate it would be dangerous.

Freakzilla wrote:Judging by the confrontation between Moneo and Duncan I'd say he considered it a phase people go through when they're young. Some people experiment and like it and stay with it, some are disgusted by it. But he seemed to indicate that trying to eliminate it would be dangerous.

That's what I got from that scene. I've held a similar view and it's a theme I've experimented with in a few of my stories. (Similar to Fish Speakers in at least one)

chanilover wrote:
I'm confused. Are you asking if I masturbate alone? Gay sex usually involves some element of masturbation, so I just wondered.

Is there a prize?

I admit its a little confusing as I tried to plug all the loopholes before they were pointed out (as impossible as that sounds). The question asks if you masturbate (alone or otherwise) over (that is, watching, thinking about or feeling) the naked person of particular gender (who themselves are alone). Reminds me of filling out my tax return now!

Sure theres a prize, but only if you answer correctly.

Freakzilla wrote:Judging by the confrontation between Moneo and Duncan I'd say he considered it a phase people go through when they're young. Some people experiment and like it and stay with it, some are disgusted by it. But he seemed to indicate that trying to eliminate it would be dangerous.

His writings on homosexuality were coloured by his failure to come to terms with his son's gayness.

NotAbout wrote:

chanilover wrote:
I'm confused. Are you asking if I masturbate alone? Gay sex usually involves some element of masturbation, so I just wondered.

Is there a prize?

I admit its a little confusing as I tried to plug all the loopholes before they were pointed out (as impossible as that sounds). The question asks if you masturbate (alone or otherwise) over (that is, watching, thinking about or feeling) the naked person of particular gender (who themselves are alone). Reminds me of filling out my tax return now!

Sure theres a prize, but only if you answer correctly.

Too many brackets! Anyway, I'm gay so I want to claim the prize for the second person to answer.