The HLP: many are HERBERTS

chanilover · Post by **chanilover** » 11 May 2008 18:27

Spice Grandson wrote:

I feel nauseated after reading this tripe.

Is that what the advanced reading group said about Paul of Dune?

I know Nebby's posts can be a bit gushy, but calling them tripe is a bit harsh.

orald · Post by **orald** » 11 May 2008 18:28

Mandy wrote:Oh I saw the posts you are probably referring to but Orald posts for shock value to get a laugh. You are the internet representative for the HLP, it would probably be a good idea to develop a thicker skin.

Yea, I don't really think Brian is adopted or someone else's get, not really.

I think he's an alien doppelganger! ZOMG the invasion has begun!

*We need a scared smiley too*

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 May 2008 18:28

Ah, the Mouth That Roared has returned. And dared post somewhere besides the beer thread!

I've said it before: there were other ways to increase sales of Frank's books and introduce them to a new generation of readers BESIDES publishing low quality pulp crap under the Dune name. Especially co-(or mostly?)authored by someone like Kevin James Anderson.

You've admitted yourself that your board members have exercised no editorial control whatsoever over the content of the new books. You left the choice of writing partner completely up to Brian and have essentially let them write what they wanted. (What Kevin wanted?) The last time I asked, you seemed rather vague on the contents of the famous Outline and said you didn't have a copy of your own...all of which implies that you have no idea what your grandfather really had in mind for "Dune 7" and that you're just going along with what they say.

And if that's true, then you're just a bogus yes-man and as far as I'm concerned your opinion doesn't count for much.

Isn't it about time you Herberts grew a pair or two and did something original again? Tell Kevin to go tenderly fuck himself and release the ouline. Let people know what Frank Herbert really intended for his last Dune book.

orald · Post by **orald** » 11 May 2008 18:32

SandChigger wrote:Especially co-(or mostly?)authored by someone like Kevin James Anderson.

Ever since I found out his middle name you can't stop using it, can you?

Nekhrun · Post by **Nekhrun** » 11 May 2008 18:39

Spice Grandson wrote:Have you seen the increase in sales of Frank Herbert's original series (Amazon, etc.)? And the fact that a new movie deal has been struck? And that publishers are now re-releasing the original series in hardcover again? And that many of Frank's non-Dune books have been re-released, too? So exactly how does that equate to not keeping Frank's worlds alive?

You don't think the same could've been accomplished and more with the release of some mindful works that not only keep Frank's novels alive, but further the causes he wrote about?

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 May 2008 18:43

Just as has been shown in the crap books they've been squatting out for the last decade, it seems they're basically suffering from a lack of imagination.

They could have:

1. Issued a concordance. (A real one, not just something they flap their mouths about and list in bibliographies of other books.)

2. Issued a REAL Dune Encyclopedia.

3. Issued a book of the chapters and passages cut from Dune and the other novels; variant chapters and endings, FH's correspondence with publishers (or famous scientists?)...The Road to Dune, in other words, without the crap.

4. Gotten publishers to issue anniversary editions of the books. (Just as they did in reality.)

I'm sure there were other things they could have done. But what they did do must have been easier.

Ah, that ole easy road....

Spice Grandson · Post by **Spice Grandson** » 11 May 2008 19:59

I smell flame bait...

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 May 2008 20:02

Just another random thought:

They seem to think we should respect them just because they are Herbert/Merritts and own the legal rights to FH's legacy.

That's bullshit.

Frank Herbert earned our respect by what he did, the love and effort he put into his works.

If they want more than just our money, they will have to do the same.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 May 2008 20:02

Spice Grandson wrote:I smell flame bait...

You smell. Period.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » 11 May 2008 20:15

Spice Grandson wrote:I smell flame bait...

I didn't really expect you to answer any questions, thanks for meeting my expectations

Spice Grandson · Post by **Spice Grandson** » 11 May 2008 20:19

Mandy wrote:
Spice Grandson wrote:I smell flame bait...
I didn't really expect you to answer any questions, thanks for meeting my expectations

You're welcome.

GamePlayer · Post by **GamePlayer** » 11 May 2008 21:16

Yup. Slow indeed. And since it's a slow Sunday for me, why not discuss a tangent on the subject of slowness?

A question to those that still visit Deadnovels: has the board become stale? If there has been as much "escalating response" happening there as you've all previously described, the board might have been moderated into a wonderful, calm and pleasant state of intolerable, paralytic mediocrity. Has it reached that state yet? Just curious, since the subject's "popped up"

Post by **Omphalos** » 11 May 2008 21:24

Spice Grandson wrote:The Herbert family loved and respected Frank. Many a Thanksgiving was spent at his home in Port Townsend with everyone gathered. Even I, in my childhood, talked with Frank about Dune items.

Our goal is to keep Frank's vision alive. It deserves it. It doesn't deserve the trash that has spilled forth on this thread, that's for sure.

I feel nauseated after reading this tripe.

Brian and Kevin are keeping Frank's legacy alive by putting out there that their purpose is to correct Frank's mistakes, completely change the tone of the Dune saga, and tell stories that Frank never would have wanted told? How noble.

And would you kindly shut the fuck up about how your uncle and his butt buddy have awakened a bunch of morons to FH's words. Very few of them understand what FH was writing anyway, so that doesn't count. Besides, hiring a good writer would have accomplished that to an even greater degree, and proven that you respect the books enough to treat them like something other than an ATM.

Post by **Omphalos** » 11 May 2008 21:31

orald wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Especially co-(or mostly?)authored by someone like Kevin James Anderson.
Ever since I found out his middle name you can't stop using it, can you?

I always thought the "J" stood for "Judas."

Post by **Omphalos** » 11 May 2008 21:37

SandChigger wrote:Just as has been shown in the crap books they've been squatting out for the last decade, it seems they're basically suffering from a lack of imagination.

They could have:

1. Issued a concordance. (A real one, not just something they flap their mouths about and list in bibliographies of other books.)

2. Issued a REAL Dune Encyclopedia.

3. Issued a book of the chapters and passages cut from Dune and the other novels; variant chapters and endings, FH's correspondence with publishers (or famous scientists?)...The Road to Dune, in other words, without the crap.

Neither one of them are smart enough to put something like that together. Can you imagine how that would read?

The Idiot Brothers wrote:"Evidents shows that Frank Hrebert intended for the word "ghola" to sound like "ghoul" citation. Isn't that creepy boys and girls? According to something we read on Wikipedia, they were all over the place in the last two books. citation. They had a plot to take all over the world. I mean, the universe. citation. But really, by the end of the "saga," (and by "saga," I mean book seven (and eight)) nothing that Frank had their masters doing amounted to shit. citation.

Geez. Now that I think about it, thank god for small favors.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 11 May 2008 22:32

Spice Grandson wrote:I smell flame bait...

if you dont like flame bait then quit posting it ........ oh..and btw ....since when did Taz get your account info and start posting under your name...i dont remember Byron's post being this bad....but it has been a while

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 11 May 2008 22:44

Like your grandfather used to tell you..."Shut up, Byron."

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » 11 May 2008 22:45

I still hold that the HLP's motivation is really exactly what Mr. Merritt is claiming: they want to keep ol' Frank's legacy alive, and they want to see more Dune books written. As we know, the HLP only has one metric: number of books sold.

It's really not about the money, guys. The HLP is either willfully ignorant to what they're doing, or they're just blind to the reality of the situation. As long as their motives are pure, there's no sin, right?

I just can't believe they're malicious or angry enough to intentionally commit fraud on how ever many readers they happen to have, just for the pittance that they're surely getting from publishers or whoever.

HoosierDaddy · Post by **HoosierDaddy** » 12 May 2008 00:33

Spice Grandson wrote:I smell flame bait...

I knew you would arrive here eventually, you magnificent bastard.

Can we hope for candid, anonymous, "frank" conversation?

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 12 May 2008 01:02

You magnificent bastard....

Oh, shit, what's that from?

Magnolia?

Post by **Omphalos** » 12 May 2008 01:14

Patton!

HoosierDaddy · Post by **HoosierDaddy** » 12 May 2008 01:22

Omphalos wrote:Patton!

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK!"

Robspierre · Post by **Robspierre** » 12 May 2008 02:22

Omphalos wrote:Patton!

One of my favorite flicks when I was six, I would go around quoting it.

Rob

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 12 May 2008 02:25

Ah, of course.

I think I've seen a few minutes of that one....

(Not really big on war flix.)

Nebiros · Post by **Nebiros** » 12 May 2008 03:57

I skipped most of what Byron and the all you other guys are debating on this thread, but when I initially started this thread, I was looking for an answer to how this all came to be. I saw several possible scenarios. But few of you have really answered me.

When you guys attack the authors of the new Dune novels and the HLP, It seems to imply that the fans knew Frank Herbert better than the Herberts or that (in the present anyway) the fans now know more about the Herberts than Frank ever did after reading the new books. This is absolutely NOT true.

You refuese to aknowledge that either Frank would feel betrayed (if he would not stand for what has become of Dune) or that he is happy that his son is a success at earning a living with what he left behind (If he is happy with the new books) This is contradicting!

Frank should have known something like this would happen. Before he died there was already a Dune film released, there was the Dune Encyclopedia and even a Dune board game. All released BEFORE he died. He knew Brian aspired to be a writer and even co-wrote one book with his son.

What I do know is that Frank Herbert wrote novels that had meaning. He valued his work and wanted people to learn from them. But he also wanted to leave behind something for his children and grandchildren.

So here are again some possible scenarios:

a. Frank Herbert was a loner and was close only to his wife Beverly. He was hardly aware of the people around him and spent more time writing novels. In this case, he would not forsee that his son would do what he has been doing since 1999. And he would indeed feel that his family has BETRAYED him.

b. Frank was close to his family and accepted them for all their flaws. He knew that what has happened was POSSIBLE (He cannot see the future, but he could see the possibility). In this case he would be proud and happy for his son even though the quality of the books are low.

c. Frank knew he could not trust anybody with his work. That is why he put his Dune 7 outline in a saftey deposit box (after all, he DID value his work) but it did not stop Brian from finding it. In this case he would be mildly dissapointed, because while some fans will not truly get the right message out of Dune, some still will despite the new books. This is one most here should agree with.

d. Despite Frank's genius, he did not know his son would do this but did not consider his family members stupid. He knew them well (exept maybe his gay son Bruce) and loved them. But even in this scenario, he would either feel betrayed or proud of Brian.

All I am asking is either a nod of argeement with something I said, or give me your own recollection of how things went. But any way you look at it, it's either Frank would be proud or feel betrayed. Or as c. suggests: mildly dissapointed.