Paul of Dune spoilers

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 11 Sep 2008 19:40

Hunchback Jack wrote:They really don't seem to get that just because some things stay static over millenia, that doesn't mean that *everything* in the later books has to have some kernel in the earlier timeframe.

HBJ

Exactly what I think too.

And they seems to not understand the evolution of technology, society and culture through time.
They have the idea that if one technology like no-field, or a culture like the Tleilaxu fanatics is shown at the last books, that things have to exist at the early books too. It's a very naive PoV of history and science.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 11 Sep 2008 20:19

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Hunchback Jack wrote:They really don't seem to get that just because some things stay static over millenia, that doesn't mean that *everything* in the later books has to have some kernel in the earlier timeframe.

HBJ
Exactly what I think too.

And they seems to not understand the evolution of technology, society and culture through time.
They have the idea that if one technology like no-field, or a culture like the Tleilaxu fanatics is shown at the last books, that things have to exist at the early books too. It's a very naive PoV of history and science.

They understand jack shit.

Everytime someone says PoV I think of porn...

Lisan Al-Gaib · Post by **Lisan Al-Gaib** » 11 Sep 2008 20:25

Freakzilla wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
Hunchback Jack wrote:They really don't seem to get that just because some things stay static over millenia, that doesn't mean that *everything* in the later books has to have some kernel in the earlier timeframe.

HBJ
Exactly what I think too.

And they seems to not understand the evolution of technology, society and culture through time.
They have the idea that if one technology like no-field, or a culture like the Tleilaxu fanatics is shown at the last books, that things have to exist at the early books too. It's a very naive PoV of history and science.
They understand jack shit.

Everytime someone says PoV I think of porn...

huahuahuahuahauhauahauahauahau

Rakis · Post by **Rakis** » 11 Sep 2008 23:46

I just can't believe the shit about the Muadru...

THEY brought the sandtrout ?!

THEY all became extinct?!

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 12 Sep 2008 05:36

Never mind the fact that muad'dib was the name for the Terran kangaroo mouse beastie:

MUAD'DIB: the adapted kangaroo mouse of Arrakis, a creature associated in the Fremen earth-spirit mythology with a design visible on the planet's second moon. This creature is admired by Fremen for its ability to survive in the open desert.

I haven't tried to find this word in an Arabic dictionary; I wonder if they bothered even thinking about it. The burden is upon them to explain the origin and development of the muad- morpheme they apparently there.

I hate these fucking amateurs. (Don't get me started on hrethgir, by the way.

)

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 12 Sep 2008 06:05

Was busy with other stuff yesterday and I didn't spend much time on PuD, so there's no much new to report at the moment.

Did want to clear up a possible mistaken impression I may have given: Thallo, the BT KH, is pretty much fully grown but still becomes friends with Marie Fenring.

There are repeated references to the "film" suit he wears and a bit more attention paid to details of the perfection of his physique than I was comfortable with. Nothing quite so homoerotic as Erasmus ogling Gilbertus' bum in the shower, but you still gotta wonder which one of them writes this shit.

And Thallo wants to off himself in a big way to teach the BT Masters a lesson. So much for him killing himself because he is unable to live with becoming his opposite.

(Obviously the lesson of someone being punished for hubris really hasn't sunk into Kevin's noggin. Maybe shigawire filaments in the combover act like a tin foil hat?

)

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 12 Sep 2008 12:01

If anything I thought the irony was supposed to be around Mahdi, which iirc means messiah in arabic (or farsi...one of em) and sounds like Muad'dib.

Muadru. Isn't that the sound your puking stomach makes when you eat too many burritos and go hiking? Unless your a hack writer, then its the sound your mind makes.

Tleszer · Post by **Tleszer** » 12 Sep 2008 12:24

Ampoliros wrote:If anything I thought the irony was supposed to be around Mahdi, which iirc means messiah in arabic (or farsi...one of em) and sounds like Muad'dib.

Muadru. Isn't that the sound your puking stomach makes when you eat too many burritos and go hiking? Unless your a hack writer, then its the sound your mind makes.

Its also the sound of money.

orald · Post by **orald** » 13 Sep 2008 01:25

About the poisioned hunter-seekers vs Paul: Imagine Matrix Reloaded's park scene with Neo vs hundreds of Agent Smith's.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 15 Sep 2008 09:20

SandChigger wrote:Was busy with other stuff yesterday and I didn't spend much time on PuD, so there's no much new to report at the moment.

Did want to clear up a possible mistaken impression I may have given: Thallo, the BT KH, is pretty much fully grown but still becomes friends with Marie Fenring.

There are repeated references to the "film" suit he wears and a bit more attention paid to details of the perfection of his physique than I was comfortable with. Nothing quite so homoerotic as Erasmus ogling Gilbertus' bum in the shower, but you still gotta wonder which one of them writes this shit.

And Thallo wants to off himself in a big way to teach the BT Masters a lesson. So much for him killing himself because he is unable to live with becoming his opposite.

(Obviously the lesson of someone being punished for hubris really hasn't sunk into Kevin's noggin. Maybe shigawire filaments in the combover act like a tin foil hat? )

Damn Man..no spoilers ... i want to to vomit on my own when i read it...no pre-vomit man ....write spoiler alert real big ... i want to to be extremely disappointed and angry on my own first

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 15 Sep 2008 11:22

Muadru are probably a direct insert from $cientology.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 16 Sep 2008 01:58

Tyrant wrote:Damn Man..no spoilers ... i want to to vomit on my own when i read it...no pre-vomit man ....write spoiler alert real big ... i want to to be extremely disappointed and angry on my own first

nm..im a dumbass...guess i should read the thread name first huh

Mr. Teg · Post by **Mr. Teg** » 16 Sep 2008 04:49

Ampoliros wrote:Muadru are probably a direct insert from $cientology.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 16 Sep 2008 07:46

Well, I believe the piece of shit goes on sale here in the States today, so anyone who's interested in just how bad this thing is can see for themselves.

More of what this thing is all about: this morning on facing pages I found a reference to the "Jongleurs" (from that really bad "Whisper of Caladan Seas" short story) in the first paragraph or so of the page on the left and mention of the line of gholas of Pieter de Vries in the last lines of the page on the right. (It's the "chapter" where Fenring and Margot are talking with the Tleilaxu Dr Ereboam, in one of the Emperor sections.)

I went through yesterday morning and counted the "chapters" in each of the seven sections. I calculated the number of pages in each section from the start and end pages, but still haven't bothered doing the average number of pages per "chapter". My impression while thumbing through, counting, was that it will again be about two or three pages per.

Gawd, this one's BORING.

(That may be their new tactic: to bore us to death?)

Shadout · Post by **Shadout** » 16 Sep 2008 10:46

Had totally forgotten yet another book was about to come out.
I guess thats a good thing.

I felt I couldnt stop reading their shit before book 7 (just for the chance of finding some FH stuff hidden in there), now that its out, read and forgotten (as much as its possible), it might be time to let Brian and Pinky go.

Its amazing to read about the crap they seem to have managed to throw into PoD. Muadru? Come on... I don't think they can ever come up with anything worse than Norma, but they are surely trying their best.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 16 Sep 2008 12:56

Here's my original review back up now:

BTW I got a quick peek at PoD tonight. I read the first 4 chapters in about 10 minutes.

First chapter is the excerpt so i skipped it. (BTW I found another mention of the Shrine to Leto in CoD which reiterates that its a rock cairn, and not a huge effin pyramid. CoD, which is after DM. So yeah, PoD is wrong, unless in Irulan of Dude it gets blowed up.)

Second chapter started out with a really cool idea of teaching the Fremen combat training around water. The coolness lasted about 1 paragraph. Then, a page later, Gurney seems to be acting the pederast with a cute Young fremen recruit who is designed under the cute young puppy cutout. Gurney tries to BRIBE the fremen into getting into the pool with a gold coin. (I'm not making this up). He immediately reminisces that Fremen are above bribes but throws the coin in anyway then start pushing fremen into the pool. The cute young fremen tries so hard to get that coin, but ends up drowning. Gurney dives in and pulls him out and gives him "resuscitation" after calling for a medic. I'm pretty sure if the scene continued any further Gurney would have been inviting the CYF back to his room to see his "Baliset".

I'm not making this up.

The next chapter starts with Stilgar preparing to invade Kaitain. The first paragraph again does a good job of setting up Stilgar's mood about being off planet, then immediately disintegrates when Paul's adopted kids show up to talk to him and seriously act like schoolchildren off on a field trip with "Unnca Stilgar" (kidding)yelling "Yippiee! (Paraphrasing) and acting like retards (not making that up)

I only got through the first 20 odd pages, and I felt like banging my head on something hard at least 4 times. I skipped to the end scene, where Fenring attempts to assassinate Paul. Fenring gives up and surrenders when he sees them save Paul with the spice trance-coma trick. He literally just turns off his shield and sags his shoulders. I closed the book at that point.

SandChigger wrote:The scene where Alia taunts and then allows Korba to kill an envoy from Shaddam during Paul's absence was equally so, and trite to boot. I don't recognize any of these people.

Yeah...Alia should have had Korba executed for that. Paul would have. I loved how the envoy's "ornate cane" suddenly turned into a "sonic staff" which is apparently a weapon. Except that he is described as a wobbly old man and I'm PRETTY DAMN SURE the fremen are adept at checking people for hidden weapons after dealing with Sardaukar. Also...the Envoy is there to BEG Paul to make Salusa the paradise he promised he would at the end of Dune (They even quote the passage directly). The explanation is that Shaddam is used to comfort and Paul should keep his promises. Never mind the fact that he was going to terraform Salusa to destroy the Sardaukar. WHICH IS ACTUALLY MENTIONED BY THE ENVOY.

The Fremen invasion of Kaitain seemed pretty damn pointless to me. My mind would not accept fremen acting like Viking pillagers. Jamis's kids act like ADHD retards again. People are garroted and hung from fountains for not "surrendering fast enough". Fremen are vicious yes, barbaric, mmm not so much. BTW no mention is made yet about water rights for the dead. Battle scenes on water rich worlds would have been a good place to discuss that.

Also...I'm pretty damn sure Kaitain would have been surrendered up as part of Shaddam's holdings. You know, or it might have actually been pretty well defended. Apparently capturing the Capital of the Known Universe is pretty damn easy.

Hey KJA, Margot Fenring is a BG Reverend Mother. That means she is Bene Gesseritt. You know what that means right? No? Nothing about loyalties? Hello? Apparently Sardaukar don't have loyalties to Shaddam anymore either since several of their top commanders have defected. Sardaukar infighting over this might have made an interesting side plot...nope.

I can go on....and on....and on...but most of it you've heard already in the other books.

I think this book was designed to make retarded people feel better about their skills of comprehension.

(BTW there is a nod to Karen Traviss in this book for anyone aware of the Clone wars Army controversy. She claimed there were only 3 million total Clone troopers in the ENTIRE galaxy. KJA one-ups her by having Paul mention he'll have to conquer the galaxy with only 2 million Fremen warriors.) (Hey Kevin, its a Universe, not a galaxy)

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 16 Sep 2008 13:34

First chapter is the excerpt so i skipped it. (BTW I found another mention of the Shrine to Leto in CoD which reiterates that its a rock cairn, and not a huge effin pyramid. CoD, which is after DM. So yeah, PoD is wrong, unless in Irulan of Dude it gets blowed up.)

Good find, you should get that quote (along with the quotes that show the shrine was built before DM) and shove them down Byron's throat. Anyone with posting capabilities (anyone left?) should put it up at DN and we can all start bets about how many hours the post lasts before it gets deleted.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » 16 Sep 2008 13:37

Is Gold really important?
I can't remember a place in Dune that says so.
Why Fremen would want a gold coin?

Serkanner · Post by **Serkanner** » 16 Sep 2008 13:51

Ghost wrote:Is Gold really important?
I can't remember a place in Dune that says so.
Why Fremen would want a gold coin?

They would not. Its the utter stupidity of Hackerson that comes up with this bullshit.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 16 Sep 2008 14:00

It's a solari which iirc are the official coinage.

But yes, Fremen are above bribery and greed, which KJA admits right after Gurney offers the coin. He still throws it in, and in an INCONSISTANCEY WITH HIS OWN PREVIOUS PARAGRAPHS, KJA has a young fremen try repeatedly to get the coin until he drowns and Gurney saves him.

To be fair, I think he was trying more to prove his worth. Which isn't a fremen attitude either. You are 'worth' the tribe keeping, or you walk into the desert. Its called a "Fremen decision", putting the tribe's needs above your own.

Basic fremen society 101. You know, for those of us who have READ Dune.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 16 Sep 2008 15:42

my poor poor eyes, my throbbing head!

this isn't just bad, it's utter crap. Seriously, this books wins the award for worst book ever published. Anything worse than this would cause women to miscarry and young healthy men to smoke pot for the sole reason of becoming impotent.

An old 'rangy' dandy of a swordmaster gets challenged by a Fremen warrior because he said his taste in wines was bad. The swordmaster roundly trounces the Fremen, then lets him draw blood before disarming him. the Fremen yields.

You heard me:

A.
Fremen.
Yields.
In.
A.
Honor.
Challenge.

(Actually another Fremen 'yields' for him by kicking the knife away when he drops it and saying the fight is over.)

Its also obvious in this that KJA wants to parallel the Fremen Jihad and the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihad. Not in terms of religious fervor, but in terms of USA vs. Islam/Good Vs. Bad.

Oh, also apparently Fenring isn't friends with Shaddam anymore. Now he hates the retard's guts because he's an idiot. Sardaukar loyalty is non-existant. Again if this was looked at in depth it might be interesting. It is not.

One more thing.

There is a life size monument of a Sandworm in Arrakeen. The scene in which it appears is to embarrassing to even recount. Just think of Sara Palin posing on top of a huge stone Moose with a fake gun and a toy hockey stick while thousands of rabid Hockey Moms cheer. Thats an apt analogy regardless of your political affiliation.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 16 Sep 2008 16:16

Just think of Sara Palin posing on top of a huge stone Moose with a fake gun and a toy hockey stick while thousands of rabid Hockey Moms cheer.

I'm pretty sure I've seen that picture somewhere...

You're missing the American flag bikini she's wearing though!

According to KJABH that "life sized" statue wouldn't have to be very big, since the mega-uber-sandworm at the end of Sadworms was bigger than any sandworm that ever lived on Arrakis. The statue would just have to be under 280 meters long - yup, that's as big as they get according to the Hack.

Ampoliros · Post by **Ampoliros** » 16 Sep 2008 16:33

Good thing those pics are apparently fake. I still don't see how people think she is 'hot'.

Tina Fey, however, is hot. She did an amazing job in that SNL skit. It takes good acting to do that with a straight face. Pohler was awesome too. "In retrospect, Sarah, I should have just wanted it more!"

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 16 Sep 2008 16:37

Ampoliros wrote:Good thing those pics are apparently fake. I still don't see how people think she is 'hot'.

The pic of her with a gun, wearing the stars and stripes bikini was a fake? Well, that unfortunatly raises her back up to "possibly a normal human being and not a crazy cult member" status in my books. Oh well.

And no, hot she is not.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 16 Sep 2008 17:15

Tina Fey isn't hot? I'm going to have to get my eyes examined then, 'cause I'd do her.