Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I want spoilers, so I don't have to actually have to read the book.

(I sure as hell won't pay money for it)

So spill the beans so I can get worked up again and find that all-consuming fire burning in my heart once again. I'm in need of a new reason for a Jihad.

Paul doesn't die at hands of Fenring.
The Normacle will play a great role n the Jihad.
Irulan wont be pregnant...nor chani.
There must be a mention to gholas...heck, maybe Bijaz!

Ghost wrote:Paul doesn't die at hands of Fenring.
The Normacle will play a great role n the Jihad.
Irulan wont be pregnant...nor chani.
There must be a mention to gholas...heck, maybe Bijaz!

Are those guesses? Have you read PoD?

Here's your spoilers:

Paul of Dune will read like an editor-less first draft dictated by a looney-tune out dodging squirrels on a hike.

It will show a complete disrespect for the source material, most noticeable in the hundreds of inconsistencies and errors that will be spotted by even casual fans of the originals.

It will be a cynical cash-grab that exploits a story that doesn't need to be told by "authors" without enough talent to tell it.

There's your spoilers. Next!

Freakzilla wrote:

Ghost wrote:Paul doesn't die at hands of Fenring.
The Normacle will play a great role n the Jihad.
Irulan wont be pregnant...nor chani.
There must be a mention to gholas...heck, maybe Bijaz!

Are those guesses? Have you read PoD?

Guesses, experience playing here

Surely will be a plot from Irulan to be pregnant (here or in IoD)
The Normacle thing was in the excerpt that you posted.
The gholas things is a dissaster waiting to happen.

The book is divided into seven parts, alternating in the timeline between Paul as Emperor and adventures of the young Paul.

I honestly just got my copy here this morning and have only glanced through it, so a few scattered tidbits:

Margot Fenring and Feyd's daughter is named Marie. But she dies through some action of Count Fenring's.

There's something at the very end about Paul having died but come back again. May or may not have something to do with the Fenring assassination attempt, may just be Irulan mythicizing.

There's something about Young(?) Paul being with Duncan in the jungle on Ecaz(Edit: That doesn't make any sense, no does it? Sorry, it was the Caladanian jungles. Duh), being pursued by Grunman assassins and meeting up with (being saved by?) those famous "Caladan primitives" (who seem to be something like nekkid Amazon forest Indian tribes). Lots of Duncan slashing through the jungle using the "Old Duke's sword".

Paul's citadel is built by some Bludd fellow.

So far it looks less offensive than just fucking boring by being a continuation (at least in the Young Paul parts) of the House books crap.

Oh, yeah, there's a mention of D-wolves...which I've always assumed were something developed by Leto II during his reign and a scene with Paul lecturing Chani in bed about Alexander the Great. Plus some references to Odysseus again, I think.

Looks to be some of the best shit they've ever squirted out.

WTF was "young Paul" doing in the middle of a War of Assasins?

Wasn't Bludd a character from the Legends books? The Primero (or something) from Harmonthep maybe? I try to forget.

I remember that Leto bred his D-wolves for their eyesight but I don't remember mention that he invented the breed/species.

SandChigger wrote:
Oh, yeah, there's a mention of D-wolves...which I've always assumed were something developed by Leto II during his reign

Yes, it was stated in GEoD, cant remember if they were a mix of wolves, laza tigers and some other things

Freakzilla wrote: Wasn't Bludd a character from the Legends books? The Primero (or something) from Harmonthep maybe? I try to forget.

Yes, he was the ruler of Harmonthep, and IIRC he was the last of his line

Um...Harmonthep no longer existed, no?

(Maybe they blow it up with that StarCrushingBore thingy? )

Baraka Bryan wrote:there would have been other bludds but yeah didn't he die in the slave riots etc...

We can't really expect him to be consistant with FH if he can't even be consistant with his own books, can we?

Why he must be a Bludd?, because an ancestor like 10000 years ago made a great wall?
It is silly to think that 10000 later your greatgreatgreatchildren will do things that you did.

Probably is so the reader think ''ooooohhhh Bludd, like the other gay from the other book'' , hate that is like the SW Family syndrome

He was gay?

Oh, yeah, there's a mention of D-wolves...which I've always assumed were something developed by Leto II during his reign and a scene with Paul lecturing Chani in bed about Alexander the Great. Plus some references to Odysseus again, I think.


I seem to remember Leto saying he bread the wolves...oops freak already answered that one.

But you know, give KJA an opening to bring in scawy monstoos...he'll give you a bullfight with a mutant Salusa Secundian Bull with razor horns.

I'm sorry, that still pisses me off. I never needed the Bull to be "super" special for the Old Duke dying in a bullfight to be a good story. He died in a bullfight, thats cool enough.

Gaze Hounds were one of the primary ancestors of D Wolves.

Yes, and?

Gaze hounds are mentioned only once, in the chase scene at the beginning of GEoD, but twice in House Atreides and once in House Harkonnen and ONE TIME EVEN in the first chapter of Paul of Dune. Why they felt the need to pull D-wolves several hundred (if not a couple of thousand) years into the past is beyond me. I have faith in your apologist skills, however.

Let's see, what else....

I've been pigging out on DVDs again tonight, like every night (the cable people can't get round to reconnect me until Thursday), so I haven't done much more looking through the book, but during a glance while having a very pleasant jetlagged bowel clearance, I did find something fun for Mastuh B:

Prepare to meet Thallo, the famed Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. Who, because the Fenrings are spending a year on Tleilax, becomes playmate and confidant to little Marie Fenring.

Young Thallo is a WunderKind in many many ways. There are repeated references to his ability to fool the equipment of the Tleilaxu scientists observing him. I haven't found the relevant passage though that spells out whether this manipulation is legitimate (meaning, by physical means) or by some psychic bullshit they've dreamed up. Everything I've read so far could go either way.

Also something about a sect of Isolated Sisters on Caladan. Who knew?

Still no sign of Serena or Norma or mention of the Mysterious Muadru. (That latter is almost de rigueur now for a "New Dune" work. )

Isolated sisters?

Brian and KJA put themselves in the story?

That would be "Twisted Sisters", no?

No, they just give us the Twisted Tleilaxu KH.

In the Cabinet of Doktor Kalig...er, I mean, Ereboam, we finally learn the secrets of how to twist a Mentat.

(yawn)

I'm going to bed.

Wait...who's this? Prad Vidal? Some descendent of some relative of Gore?

Oh yeah, there's a passage (again) about Paul proofreading some of Irulan's writings and noting the "errors and fabrications" but letting them stay in because they suit his purposes as well.

He really was born on Kaitain, you know.

And yes, I do intend on reading this shit from cover to cover and spoiling every insipid plot element in it before it goes on sale here in the States next week.

The book actually does live up to my expectations ... it is indeed Crap!

They really went all the way in having Paul say he was born on Kaitain? How sad is that.

Yes, and?

Gaze hounds are mentioned only once, in the chase scene at the beginning of GEoD, but twice in House Atreides and once in House Harkonnen and ONE TIME EVEN in the first chapter of Paul of Dune. Why they felt the need to pull D-wolves several hundred (if not a couple of thousand) years into the past is beyond me. I have faith in your apologist skills, however.

I'm not even attempting to apologize for it, or play devil's advocate. People were posting the heredity of the D Wolves but they were incomplete and usually expressed some level of forgotten info. I was just trying to complete the information.

I can't imagine there being any excuse for having D Wolves in the Heroes era, unless Frank was wrong about Leto developing them... and if BH/KJA have taught us anything, its that Frank was clearly wrong about just about everything in Dune.

Yes, it was stated in GEoD, cant remember if they were a mix of wolves, laza tigers and some other things

I remember that Leto bred his D-wolves for their eyesight but I don't remember mention that he invented the breed/species.

SandChigger wrote: Why they felt the need to pull D-wolves several hundred (if not a couple of thousand) years into the past is beyond me. I have faith in your apologist skills, however.

They need to connect everything with everything, specially FH's work with their shit, look we also write about it, it makes us canNon

SandChigger wrote:Prepare to meet Thallo, the famed Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach. Who, because the Fenrings are spending a year on Tleilax, becomes playmate and confidant to little Marie Fenring.

So this is the Tleilaxu KH that people talked about in Dune Messiah? (or it was in Heretics/Chapterhouse?)

SandChigger wrote:Young Thallo is a WunderKind in many many ways. There are repeated references to his ability to fool the equipment of the Tleilaxu scientists observing him. I haven't found the relevant passage though that spells out whether this manipulation is legitimate (meaning, by physical means) or by some psychic bullshit they've dreamed up. Everything I've read so far could go either way.

A wizard did it!

SandChigger wrote:Also something about a sect of Isolated Sisters on Caladan. Who knew?

IIRC, there is were Helena (Leto's mother) was exilied after Paulus's death in the corrida (House Atreides), maybe she is coming back???

The BT KH was mentioned in DM.

Freakzilla wrote:The BT KH was mentioned in DM.

Yeah, as a nameless experiment.

Didn't it commit suicide?

Chig wrote:but during a glance while having a very pleasant jetlagged bowel clearance,

Aww, you say the sweetest things!

Secher Nbiw wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:The BT KH was mentioned in DM.

Yeah, as a nameless experiment.

Didn't it commit suicide?

Yes. The fact that there was a BT KH was not important. What was important was that he killed himself rather than become the opposite of what he'd spent a lifetime becoming. It was purely an experiment to find a way to bring down Paul.